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kocakb 07-20-2004 04:01 AM

atemi
 
Hi all;
atemi is said to be very important for our techniques; to break the balance. I realised that, while we are training, for example in yokomen uchi shiho nage, we just softly touch the ukes face and continue the technique.
what I want to ask, in a real application, is there a specific point to do atemi in aikido; like striking the nose, eyes, chin etc ? or just hit anywhere and continue ?
I applied once to 2-3 classes of boxing. They were punching in the mid of the face; breaks the nose of the opponent. Personaly I think this is more than breaking the balance :uch: , just be curious about your opinion...
have a nice and sunny day :cool:

AriesS 07-20-2004 05:06 AM

Re: atemi
 
It is normally used to DISTRACT and/or UNBALANCE your opponent.

Ian Williams 07-20-2004 05:27 AM

Re: atemi
 
when transiting from the inside to the outside in Jujitsu.. (sorry, I don't know the japanese or aikido equivs but imagine blocking a a left overhead attack in a left foot stance..) we do a striking unbalance to the face with an open hand, not a punch, in order to turn the whole head away from you. This acheives both the distraction to transit to the outside, and also puts space between you and the persons right arm....

So the idea is not always to strike to damage...


which reminds me, a documentary on bruce lee is about to start!.. must scoot.

Nick P. 07-20-2004 07:11 AM

Re: atemi
 
On the other hand (pardon the pun)....

http://www.aikidofaq.com/video/chiba_wakeup.mov

;)

Lyle Laizure 07-20-2004 09:18 AM

Re: atemi
 
Atemi should flow with the technique you are performing so as not to stop your momentum. How hard you choose to strike is a decision you have to make for the given situation you are engaged. You don't want to use excessive force but at the same time you have to be sure that the atemi is effective.

Generally speaking I use an open handed strike but there are times close handed (fist) strikes are more appropriate and more effective.

jxa127 07-20-2004 09:45 AM

Re: atemi
 
You're right, it can be more than just breaking balance. Atemi can be devestatingly effective, and I don't think that that is necessarily counter to aikido principles.

See the links at the bottom of this page for some good discussions on the topic.

Regards,

-Drew

xuzen 07-20-2004 08:56 PM

Re: atemi
 
Dear fellow aikidoka,

This atemi subject is too delicious to ignore. I know that it has been discussed many times... Argggh, I can't resist, my fingers are making me type this...

Trying to apply aikido technique thinking atemi is the Key Success Factor: Wrong

Using atemi as an adjuct to disharmonize the uke while applying a technique. Correct.

To more novice practitioner, I hope you all understand atemi is not merely punching the face, nose etc to cause pain. Take hiji ate for example, it has an atemi built into it, i.e. the hitting of the elbow. Sokumen iriminage, it is an atemi to the chest with your elbow. Irimi Kokyu nage, an atemi to the shoulder joint. They are built in the technique to smooth out the techniques' execution.

Once upon a time, I was roughing it out with a fellow pratcitioner. He got me on the floor and trying to pin him was difficult, because he was moving around like an eel. So I managed to locate the shoulder joint and screw my knuckle into the joint. He was almost in tears. I hope I never get the same treatment, I think that must have been an unpleasant sensation.

Just something on the side (pls take it with humour)... if atemi can be anything used to distract the uke, then maybe some very unconventional techniques like, biting, spitting into the eyes, ramming your forehead against the nose are fairgame too?

:D
Boon

Ian Williams 07-20-2004 09:04 PM

Re: atemi
 
Quote:

Just something on the side (pls take it with humour)... if atemi can be anything used to distract the uke, then maybe some very unconventional techniques like, biting, spitting into the eyes, ramming your forehead against the nose are fairgame too?
correct.. I was discussing "biting unbalances" with my sensei last week when discussing how to escape rear headlocks by very very strong opponents.. I'm less than satisfied the standard JJ technique being taught to us would work in real life.

Charles Hill 07-20-2004 09:58 PM

Re: atemi
 
Just an opinion, but I think that many differences of opinion about atemi are actually due to different definitions of the term. In Japanese, to a regular person, the word "atemi" has a very general connotation. I think that many Japanese teachers have strong opinions about how to use strikes with techniques, and this opinion becomes the definition for non Japanese speaking students.

Charles Hill

Kyri Honigh 07-20-2004 11:03 PM

Re: atemi
 
Well I think you can hit to destract and to damage. If you hit to damage or daze your opponent, I'd recommend hitting the temples, gouging the eyes, hitting the nose, upperlip and throat. Mid section: solar plexus, spleen, or any area of the lower belly (muscles are usually underdeveloped and therefore weak). Legs, knees, shins and ankles. Arms : elbow, shoulder joint. I don't know much about actually applying atemi outside of the dojo, but to me it would be a good thing to read about the weak points of the human body. Krav Maga is great at attacking the weak spots of the human body, but their methods are very brutal.

Lyle Laizure 07-21-2004 08:42 AM

Re: atemi
 
Quote:

Just something on the side (pls take it with humour)... if atemi can be anything used to distract the uke, then maybe some very unconventional techniques like, biting, spitting into the eyes, ramming your forehead against the nose are fairgame too?
My interpretation of atemi is anything that will off balance your attacker. From what you mentioned in the quote to a big fat kiss. It works. :D

Ron Tisdale 07-21-2004 11:43 AM

Re: atemi
 
David Valadez has an excellent post on aikidojournal.com that discusses the idea of atemi leading into grappling...while I don't necessarily agree with all of his points, its pretty well thought out, and gives some practical exercises to try. Its probably worth searching for.

Ron

Paula Lydon 07-21-2004 02:40 PM

Re: atemi
 
~~In the style of jujitsu I'd studied, we always struck for varying degrees of damage, my teacher explaining: "This has a higher chance rating of disbalancing someone than simple trying to disbalance them. At least you'll usually get something more often than not to work with."~~


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