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-   -   knee damage (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=582)

ian 02-20-2001 08:01 AM

I have trained in aikido for several years and have done tae-sebaki and irimi-tenkan excercises such that my knee often bends outwards slightly (if you do Yoshinkan aikido I'm sure you know what I mean). I have a lot of knee clicking which, strangely enough, started when I started aikido (though it may be due to running also). I have to warm up my knees before any bending, otherwise it displaces a ligament or something and is very painfull.

Recently I have tried to change my irimi-tenkan/tae-sebaki technique so that a. my front foot points directly forward and b. my knee is directly in line with my front foot and not bent out to the side. However I find doing it this way;
a. prevents me entering as deeply (as I have to spin more on my stepping in foot, and therefore can't stretch it as far forwards
b.reduces my balance (as I have to twist my leading foot on my ball, or even lift it off the ground, to enable it to line up).

The question is:
- what is your advice for effective turning without damaging my knees (is there effective turning without knee-damage?)
- should I even practise linear irimi-tenkan excercises?
- does it really matter if my knee ligaments are really bendy, of am I causing long term damage.

Any pointers would be gratefully accepted;

Ian

P.S. I read the section in aikiweb on knee injuries, but mine isn't so much of a sudden injury as a fear of future knee problems.

afwen 02-20-2001 02:23 PM

I have found that pivoting on the heels instead of on the balls of the feet takes a lot of strain off of my knees.

Of course, this change introduces a raft of related issues regarding foot placement and weight distribution.

-Alvin

mj 02-20-2001 03:18 PM

Hi Ian. I'm really sorry about your knee problem. Seriously, go to a trained sports physiotherapist who is medically trained. If you can't do that go and see your family doctor immediately! With all due respect to kidoka who post here, unless they are medically trained -and- trained specifically in sports injuries (I know it's not a sport, please don't post arguments on that line,) go to a professional. What's the difference between the two? 99% of the time a doctor will tell you to give up, but a good physio can help you go on.

mj 02-20-2001 03:20 PM

...and on and on and on... (age 37 in May)

aiki-victim 02-20-2001 05:07 PM

same problem here...
 
I have much a similar problem, although when it occurs my knee feels like its coming out of the socket! Anyways, to stop the pain I have simply had to change how I move slightly so that I do not twist the leg as I turn, removing sideways pressure on the joint. As stated above turning on the heels helps a lot!

andrew 02-21-2001 06:52 AM

Knee problems can be caused by muscles on either side of the knee being different strengths. See a sports doctor/physiotherapist. Just one of those odd things, like ho thigh muscles can be too strong and rip the hamstrings..
andrew

ian 02-22-2001 11:23 AM

thanks fo those replies - I will certainly try turning on the heel instead.

I had been to a knee specialist before (several years ago), and they explained various things about my knee and what was happening, as well as strengthening excercises - however they couldn't provide advice on the best way to do aikido! However, this small bit of info. may stop deterioration whilst still allowing me to turn well! (I must admit, I used to do hundreds of tae-sebakis and irimi tenkans 'till I felt dizzy - now I just do a few good ones).

Ian

akiy 02-22-2001 09:05 PM

Quote:

ian wrote:
I had been to a knee specialist before (several years ago), and they explained various things about my knee and what was happening, as well as strengthening excercises
Did you do these exercises? From people I know who have had knee problems (including needing arthoscopic surgery), they say that although the exercises are a pain and certainly not that exciting to do, they really do help...
Quote:

however they couldn't provide advice on the best way to do aikido!
Maybe you can find a physical therapist who has done or is doing aikido?

Another way you can approach this is by looking at some movement therapies like Feldenkrais or Alexander Technique. I've been meaning to look into Feldenkrais myself...

-- Jun

rmt 03-02-2001 04:18 AM

If you go to the archives on the takemusu Aiki association pageyou will find a long article about knee injuries which you might find useful.

http://www.aikidoaus.com.au/dojo/index.htm

Richard

P.S. Hope everything works out well.


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