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-   -   Surprise Ikkyo and Ukemi musing (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5752)

willy_lee 06-03-2004 10:54 AM

Surprise Ikkyo and Ukemi musing
 
I was wrestling with a friend of mine yesterday (just friendly rowdiness) and at a certain point I was on bottom, on my side and my face flush against a wall. He had my top arm at wrist and just above the elbow, and he bent my elbow, turned it over, and went into a perfect ikkyo! Now he has no aikido training whatsoever (no wrestling either for that matter), but somehow it just presented itself to him and he did it.

It was getting pretty uncomfortable in my shoulder, and I used my arm and back muscles to extend my way out of it, as I was starting to see visions of my shoulder coming apart. Of course, I was able to take advantage of the fact that he didn't really want to hurt me, so he was laying off on it somewhat. But later I was thinking: I really had no way to turn away from it to take the pressure off. I was stuck against the wall and unable to roll. If he had decided to explosively drop all his weight against the joint it would have hurt .... a lot. Don't think it would have broken bone but I could see shoulder ligaments going sproing.

So I was able to gut it out, but only because he didn't really want to hurt me. That really brought home to me a point I've been reading about on this forum and aikido-l a lot, about what it really means to take ukemi, and about resistance. But now I am puzzled as to what the best, safest ukemi for that situation *would* have been.

Anyone have any ideas as to what I could have done in that situation?

=wl

Jordan Steele 06-03-2004 01:11 PM

Re: Surprise Ikkyo and Ukemi musing
 
The safest way to take all ukemi is to keep your eyes on nage until he forces you to turn your head. As for ikkyo, once it has been effectively applied it is very difficult to get out of. Rolling out of it works, but you didn't have that option. Sometimes drawing both your elbows into your sides and then torqing your body to face your opponent works. Also anytime an elbow control is applied do not let your arm be extended into an armbar because then it can be broken, but if you keep an angle, your arm is relatively safe no matter how much pain is being inflicted on the shoulder. Just play with it.

James Giles 06-03-2004 01:42 PM

Re: Surprise Ikkyo and Ukemi musing
 
Quote:

Willy Lee wrote:
But now I am puzzled as to what the best, safest ukemi for that situation *would* have been.
Anyone have any ideas as to what I could have done in that situation?

Tap out? :D

willy_lee 06-03-2004 03:56 PM

Re: Surprise Ikkyo and Ukemi musing
 
Quote:

James Giles wrote:
Tap out? :D

Hehe -- good one! :)

Janet Rosen 06-03-2004 06:50 PM

Re: Surprise Ikkyo and Ukemi musing
 
It is *often* (not always) possible to keep the elbow flexed, which I do to a degree that some partners look askance at, but it is highly protective of joints, keeps me more flexibly center-to-center connected with nage (ie, able to keep angled towards/seeing nage) and gives me the possibility of a little wiggle room if needed. By the time partner has me down, I can generally feel if they are trustworthy and will let them straighten the elbow to do the final pin.


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