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Rhaevin80 05-21-2004 11:05 AM

Steven Seagal
 
Steven Seagal doesn't look like he uses true Aikido to me. I mean I'm not in Aikido, but he kicks the crap out of people in his movies. How is that Aikido?

vanstretch 05-21-2004 03:16 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Brian, Hi, have you ever rented a movie lately at your local blockbuster? Have you noticed that the photograph on the DVD or VHS cover usually shows a male weilding a pistol pointed upward and he is usually in a three-quarter turn pose and turning his neck so to look, leaner, cooler, more menacing? Have you considered the art of photgraphy and all it entails? Did you know there was this thing called show business ?And that these highly paid actors are making sooo much money so to live out the fantasies of the masses? Did you ever wonder if the camera crew just aimed their gear at Seagal and in a few hours that everyone towled off and went home no problem? Is it possible that in this land of make-believe that there are people called stunt choreographers, stand-ins, doubles, video manipulation for better final effect, editorial priviledge etc,etc,etc??? Did you think that the people that Seagal "beat" on his videos didn't go have a beer with the guy that evening and were maybe actually his friends? Did you know the difference between fantasy and reality? Did you consider any of the above? Ever ? Have i actually consumed way too much coffee man? Somebody help me!!

John Boswell 05-21-2004 03:29 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
water... daniel. start drinking WATER. :p

You're right, Brian. Seagal Sensei doesn't do a lot of aikido in his movies. Doesn't mean he can't, just that he's doing something else... making a movie.

Ironically, I think using Aikido EXCLUSIVLY in a movie would absolutly rock and kick total butt! Why he doesn't try, I have no idea. *shrug*

Peace out.

Rhaevin80 05-21-2004 05:26 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
I was just wondering why people keep saying rent Seagal's earlier movies to see him do aikido. I just watched one, and didn't really see aikido in it. That was really all I was saying. Sorry if I upset you danny. I was basically in a round a bout way trying to see if he really did aikido in his movies or another MA.

Rhaevin80 05-21-2004 05:29 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Oh by the way thanks for making me look like a retard danny.

Lan Powers 05-21-2004 11:19 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Often folks have used the pun, "Movie Fu" regarding the filmed stuff of Seagal Sensei. I have seen a few clips of his actual aikido training, and he looks like he is very skilled. This has been discussed a few times before, but it is a recurrent idea here. *shrug
You seem to have come to the right conclusions on what you have seen on film....since you are perceptive enough to make the distinction, (obviously not a retard) you might like to train in the real deal....
Welcome
Lan

batemanb 05-22-2004 01:24 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Quote:

Brian Meuser wrote:
I was just wondering why people keep saying rent Seagal's earlier movies to see him do aikido. I just watched one, and didn't really see aikido in it. That was really all I was saying. Sorry if I upset you danny. I was basically in a round a bout way trying to see if he really did aikido in his movies or another MA.

I think most people are refering to Nico (Above the Law) which contains a few seconds of actual footage of Seagal in an Aikido dojo when he was younger. Other than that, there`s only a few techniques here and there.

rgds

Bryan

SeiserL 05-22-2004 10:37 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
IMHO, if we all spent as much time training as we do watching and criticizing Seagal movies, all of our waza would look better.

IMHO, never confuse movie stunts for the real deal. On tapes I have seen of Seagal seminars, his waza was very good.

Now get away from the television and back to the Dojo.

vanstretch 05-23-2004 05:56 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Hi Lynn, thats what i was trying to convey, using the socratic method, albeit-under the influence of coffee beans!! thanks again. daniel.

Dario Rosati 05-23-2004 04:36 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Quote:

Brian Meuser wrote:
Steven Seagal doesn't look like he uses true Aikido to me. I mean I'm not in Aikido, but he kicks the crap out of people in his movies. How is that Aikido?

What Lynn says.

His aikido (expecially when he was younger and not yet famous) looks extremely good to me, judging from some very short movies/tapes you can find around.

Remember? I'm the one of the "rougher" sensei :D

Bye!

32bit 05-23-2004 07:57 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
[b]hi, i'm Michael from Trinidad for those who don't know where that is it's on the caribnbean and i have recently been interested in joing aikido and iot is becouse of a training session i downloaded from kazaa (itwas in black and white though) i saw the speed and the control which Steven segal used and defened again multiple attacks which could prove helpfull in today's world. i would like to say that he is very skilled at what he does not only becouse in his movies the bad guys never hit him but is that not the purpose to defend uself and not be hurt that is what martial arts is used for to injur or subdue an attacker and take control of a situation.

vanstretch 05-24-2004 04:03 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Hi Michael, if I may; in the MOVIES the bad guys do attempt to HIT Seagal and in some scenes it even looks like he is being hit . As I ranted earlier up this post and desperately would like to reiterate; that is fantasy, that is stunt choreography, that is film making. It is an art as a martial art is an art, does this make sense? I can tell you this story to make my point; Ok,there is an atlanta area gym frequented by many big name Pro wwf wrestlers and the like(main event gym, marietta ga), and one day a young man ran in there and up to a Big name guy and told him that this other Big name guy was going to smash his head in because he saw it last night on TELEVISION. The naive young man thought that he was warning the other celebrity of impending disaster. The Big name guy that was advised of this told the young man the following; "Son that was acting, I am an actor and those threats were part of the theme of that particular segment that was taped for your viewing pleasure, that was fantasy=this is reality, understand?." And I only had one cup Lynn!!

Infamousapa 05-24-2004 05:41 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
No offence to anyone in this forum but i think you guys are all blinded and saturated with what you learn or read in training aikido..I currently train in Aikido and I love the art..However you guys think Aikido is going to happen like we train in the dojo..Just like the eager student who gets his bachelor's in buisness but has no experience,and has never worked is going to fit right in a buisness deal and work everthing out..I beleive STeven Seagal is doing 100% aikido in his movies,But not your aikido or your dojos aikido...Its his Aikido with his attitude and his way with words..I beleive a lot of you aikidoka out there are not fighters and probably never got into a fight and thats ok.But you got to understand Seagal is doing Aikido in his movies..Its along with his Italian attitude and his style..A lot of you people out there practice aikido to fill up a void in your life and have a better sense of well being.But you got to understand in order to apply in the streets or shall i say in reality you really got to get the aggressor mad at you and you got to bring the devil out of them so you could see their energy come out and use this against them..However everyone has their own style of stepping up the plate againt bunch of bullys,gangster of aggressors.And i honesty thing STeven Seagal shows his style of aikido in his movies..Some of you Aikidoka are living in spriritual fantasy out there and need to understand eveyone after learning basics should have their own attitude of how to apply the art and what works for them..Just like a basketball player learns basics of defending,blocking,shooting,dribbling.But in the very end he has acquired his own way of doing things to get around in the court because he has to work with what god has given him speed,height,will,jumping ablility..What im trying to say is Steven Seagal is the real deal and he shows it in his movies,Dont be so blinded by your void..Our dojo is our home our basketball court our class..But once out in the street you apply your aikido the way you can work with what you got..

Lan Powers 05-24-2004 06:02 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Like I said.... movies use choreagraphed movie fighting=movie fu.
(well done in his movies , as a rule, and I enjoy watching it, even if it is not too fashionable to admit to it these days.)
Choreagraphy makes the end product, the scene, look "real" to the majority of the public. What would actually happen in a differant environment would vary widely with circumstances.

*However you guys think Aikido is going to happen like we train in the dojo..*

Where did you get that idea from?
Lan

Green Machine 05-25-2004 04:23 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Greets to ya all

I have to have my say here, Steven Seagal does do aikido in his films and as mentioned the fights are choreographed, the stunt people are also able to do aikido anyone with enough knowledge will recognize high falls being performed by the attackers. :D

However if you want to see a film with no acting in just pure aikido starring Steven Seagal then the title to look for is
The Path Beyond Thought I have seen this film and it is brilliant it is like a biography and the aikido in it is all done in the dojo or outside the dojo with aikido students, so if anyone wants to see Steven doing proper aikido then The Path beyond thought is the film to get. This will definately end the debate as to can he or cant he do aikido.

Domo Arigato Andrew :D

vanstretch 05-25-2004 10:26 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Hey guys, good points, Lan I agree with you on the Seagal persona, and his drawing power due to Aikido skill,his past mystery,or whatever it is that gives him that star quality. I can only speak for myself and if i have been blunt or harsh toward the naive then they deserve to be at least educated(fantasy and reality get blurred when the discussion is martial arts in the cinema), and i have no problem taking advice, yet i will give it also. I have been a cop for 8 quick years and have been in alot and seen alot, hell, any cop'll understand this, and the one thing i know how to get to is the reality of the situation, and cut thru the crap to do it rapidly. I am also sensitive and understanding and many times people have mistaken kindness as weakness. That somehow is my drawing power and at times i just lay it down as i see it. Im not sorry if i have offended anyone. I like seagal movies , and PBT also. I am saying essentially this; we all like seagal and he has brought alot to the art. We all like aikido and/or have an interest in it too. Lets face it,in american aikido dojos new students eventually bring up his name and the discussion starts yet again. I think its great, just educate these interested parties of the reality of movies and the reality of real life if need be. Some people just don't see a difference. Take care. Daniel.

Ken Weaver 05-25-2004 07:10 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Hi All,

Just a couple of thoughts on the topic from a person who studied under Segal and Matsuoka in the Mid 80's (before the movies started)

1. It's just a movie..but it is very similar to his real style in the dojo.
2. He has incredible grace and power.
3. Matsuoka sensei was the stunt double for some of the "hard" scenes.
4. He was humble in the face of Abe sensei's visit and obviously loved Aikido.


I'm glad he made the movies..they are pretty entertaining afterall..but I'm sorry I lost him as an instructor. I've got pictures of Abe sensei's visit if anyone would like to see them.

-Ken

Charles Hill 05-25-2004 09:35 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Quote:

daniel vanhee wrote:
Did you think that the people that Seagal "beat" on his videos didn't go have a beer with the guy that evening and were maybe actually his friends?

You could be talking about a typical Aikido practice here.

Charles Hill

Lan Powers 05-25-2004 09:51 PM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
Cool Ken... I would love to see them..thank you for your openness.

George S. Ledyard 05-25-2004 11:17 PM

Aikido: The Path Beyond Thought
 
Does anyone know where the movie Path Beyond Thought can be obtained or is it out of print. I'd always meant to get that one for my collection.

James Giles 05-26-2004 12:11 AM

Re: Aikido: The Path Beyond Thought
 
Quote:

George S. Ledyard wrote:
Does anyone know where the movie Path Beyond Thought can be obtained or is it out of print. I'd always meant to get that one for my collection.

I think it might be out of print. I saw one up for auction on Ebay a few weeks ago: a horde of people were bidding on it, and the winner ended up paying a pretty high price for it.

I have seen links on the web that say you can buy the movie from Seagal's website, but I have not had any luck with any of the links.

batemanb 05-26-2004 03:41 AM

Re: Aikido: The Path Beyond Thought
 
Quote:

George S. Ledyard wrote:
Does anyone know where the movie Path Beyond Thought can be obtained or is it out of print. I'd always meant to get that one for my collection.


Hi George,

You could try here

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/stevenseagal/noname.html

Let us know if you can get one.

rgds

Bryan

Dyusan 05-26-2004 05:52 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
:hypno: Daniel, quit the coffee man it will hurt you. Seagal has done many good things for Aikido and many things I would not do. His style of Aikido and what he portrayed in his movies helped bring the art out to a larger group of people. But what he portrays in his movies is not real. They are fun to watch but you can't go around breaking arms and blowing off legs in real life.

john.burn 05-26-2004 07:05 AM

Re: Steven Seagal
 
IMHO, I was very unimpressed with The Path Beyond Thought to the point I gave my copy away! Some of the older footage was interesting but the more recent stuff was... very unimpressive. The way he was speaking to his students was, in my opinion, quite shocking and the students of his on the tape did nothing more than suck up to him saying how good he is and how amazing his Aikido is.

Just my opinion!

George S. Ledyard 06-04-2004 02:30 AM

Re: Aikido: The Path Beyond Thought
 
Quote:

Bryan Bateman wrote:
Hi George,

You could try here

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/stevenseagal/noname.html

Let us know if you can get one.

rgds

Bryan

Hi Bryan,
I was able to purchase the video with no problems. I have to say, I was very impressed. You don't get to see Seagal's straight Aikido much in his movies. He is quite good. If you look at his arms they are always quite relaxed and his speed is a result of that relaxation.

I was not at all offended by his tone with his students as someone was. I have at times chided my own students with much the same tone. I says "do that and you are dead". It wasn't personally humiliating or degrading, just emphatically letting the person know he needed to change what he was doing or die. Obviously the students at his dojo trained very hard in their day.

Thanks for the info on where to find it!


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