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-   -   ganseki-otoshi (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559)

ukemi-boy 02-04-2001 11:23 AM

To the experience aikidoka, how do you practice ukemi for ganseki-otoshi? You know, that technique where you end up falling backwards.

Alex

Aviv 02-04-2001 01:03 PM

carefully

Dan Hover 02-05-2001 08:12 AM

Ganseki Otoshi ukemi is a front fall landing on your all fours!!(yikes) Nage continues to keep hold of the collar and drives it more so into the mat, flattening out Uke. Although that sounds right, I would still go with what Aviv said

Carefully

[Edited by Dan Hover on February 5, 2001 at 08:31am]

Aviv 02-05-2001 08:29 AM

Actually, I would recommend landing on your feet. As you are being lifted, kick your legs up and over nages head. Hopefully you can then land upright. However, this is difficult for many (including me) and my prior response (land carefully) still overrides these technical comments.

GST can also be practiced safely without ukemi. Just load nage up.

ukemi-boy 02-05-2001 08:46 AM

Thanks for the replies. Aviv, wouldn't landing on your feet put too much pressure on your ankles? I've heard that people have broken their ankles taking ukemi from this technique. Just curious.

Alex

Aviv 02-05-2001 08:52 AM

We have practiced this very infrequently. It is in Volume 4 (I think) of Saito Sensei's original book series.

Basically, the questions are - do you walk on your feet or hands? Are your legs or your arms more resilient?
Aikido throws and falls should always include natural movements.

Good luck and train safely.

Dan Hover 02-05-2001 08:53 AM

let me put it this way, do you think that there is a reason why it has been dropped from standard curriculum??

wildaikido 02-07-2001 11:58 AM

If the technique you are talking about is the one I think it is then you should end up coming out into a forwards flat fall. Landing on your forearms and hands that are heled in a triangular shape in front of your head and chest while looking to the side, as well as landing on the balls of your feet keeping your body of the ground
<>hands
/ \
o o elbows
| |
| |
| |
/ \
/ \
/ \
0 0 balls of feet
I dont think me picture will work if you want more info email me.


[Edited by wildaikido on February 7, 2001 at 12:00pm]

Greg Jennings 02-07-2001 06:19 PM

Quote:

wildaikido wrote:
If the technique you are talking about is the one I think it is then you should end up coming out into a forwards flat fall.<snip>

I think Aviv Sensei is dead on the money. (He should be, I think he's soon to receive a nice shiny 4th dan certificate with Saito Sensei's signature across the bottom).

Ganseki Otoshi is something like koshinage. There are two differences in my limited experience. The first is that uke is more across nage's shoulders as in a fireman's carry. The second is that uke is face up rather than face down. It is a major-league scary throw to do at speed.

It looks to me like a dynamic version of the Daitoryu technique that one sees pictures of Sokaku Takeda Sensei with uke stretched across his shoulders. It's on the cover of Stanley Pranin's "Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu" book. If it works, here is a link:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/catalog...ils.asp?id=DTR

I'm sitting looking at Saito Sensei's original "Traditional Aikido Vol. 4 Vital Techniques". Ganseki Otoshi is on the cover. You can see that uke is over Saito Sensei's head (i.e., about six feet in the air) and is rolling his legs up so that he can flip over and land on his feet.

My hat is off to anyone that regularly lands out of this fall on forearms and live toes. OTOH, the Daitoryu version that I've seen windmills uke off nage's shoulders and uke lands flat on his back. Ouch!

andrew 02-08-2001 08:37 AM

There's a clip of this move done by Saito (or rather a jerky series of images) at http://www.aikidofaq.com/ in the multimedia section. It doesn't show uke landing, however.
andrew

Guest5678 02-08-2001 01:19 PM

I'm not real good with all these Japanese terms for technique yet BUT my sensei (Dennis Hooker) has placed me in (shionage sp?) then at the last minute turned his hips and taken me over in koshinage. This is a wonderful feeling by the way.... Of course, understand that he does this while explaining what he doesn't want to see people doing, HA! but anyway, the result is my head is laying on my arm like a good shionage uke and then surprise! I'm taken over backwards.

I haven't tried landing on my feet as this happens rather quickly and rather low. I usually land face down as in wildaikido's little stick figure ( btw I knew exactly what you drew there). The only thing I would add is NOT to land on the balls of your feet, it may be quicker getting up but you can be off a little and break a toe or two.

I land, very relaxed, with the top of the feet as they are the last to hit the mat and there is no weight there to do any damage. Also, do not try to use your elbows at all! Use the forearms to help disperse the energy of the fall. Most important, Relax, relax, relax.

Regards,

Dan P. - Mongo


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