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-   -   Question about omote and ura... (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5511)

Duval Culpepper 05-05-2004 10:00 PM

Question about omote and ura...
 
Hey there, I'm taking my 5th kyu test on the 8th and I had a question about omote and ura...

For shomenuchi ikkyo omote, is that the technique where you step straight through? And ura is with the tenkan?

And for katekori shionage omote, is that the kaiten move (front foot becomes the back?) and ura is where you tenkan?

Ah...writing this I think I answered my own question, ura is usually with a tenkan?

Thanks a lot.

Janet Rosen 05-05-2004 10:15 PM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
http://www.aikiweb.com/language/vocab.html
or
irimi: entering
tenkan: turning
omote: to the front of uke
ura: to the rear of uke

akiy 05-05-2004 10:54 PM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Although there is a pretty important semantic difference between omote and irimi as well as between ura and tenkan, most dojo I've been to do not differentiate between them (eg omote == irimi, ura == tenkan). So, for the questions that you asked, the answer would be pretty much "yes."

However, as Janet pointed out, the meanings of the terms are quite different.

The way I treat them is that omote and ura describe nage's location relative to uke's front center-line whereas irimi and tenkan describe the movement that nage takes. For example, I can do an irimi movement to uke's ura (as in most instances of iriminage) or I can do an irimi to uke's omote (like in shomen ate). Similarly, I can do a tenkan to uke's ura (like for some instances of kotegaeshi) or I can do a tenkan to uke's omote (like the opening movement in yokomenuchi shihonage).

... all of which is probably more than you really wanted to know...

-- Jun

Dario Rosati 05-07-2004 08:05 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Quote:

Duval Culpepper wrote:
Hey there, I'm taking my 5th kyu test on the 8th and I had a question about omote and ura...

For shomenuchi ikkyo omote, is that the technique where you step straight through? And ura is with the tenkan?

And for katekori shionage omote, is that the kaiten move (front foot becomes the back?) and ura is where you tenkan?

Ah...writing this I think I answered my own question, ura is usually with a tenkan?

Thanks a lot.

First, good luck for your test :)
Jun answered your question, but I've another... aren't that techniques/concepts the basis for the 6th? :confused:
I'm not even 6th yet (will test next month), but concepts as tenkan, ura, omote, kaiten, irimi, yoko/shomenuchi, katatetori and ai/gyaku stance (the quality of the execution is another story :D ) are pretty clear after 2-3 months of practice.

Just curious, how long have you trained to reach 5th?

Again, good luck for the test :)

Dario

GaiaM 05-07-2004 08:36 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Duval,
It sounds like you have the basic understanding of the movements correct, but to totally understand these concepts why don't you ask a sensei or one of your senior students. You have many amazing aikidoists at your dojo - take advantage of them!
To answer your question, Dario... In the USAF (Duval's dojo is home to several if of the senior senseis inthis organization), the first test you take is 5th kyu. So his questions are right on schedule for his first test!
Best,
Gaia

markwalsh 05-07-2004 08:54 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
I believe that current Doshu also differentiates between omote/ura and irimi/ tenkan in Best Aikido 2... If my memory of the Borders Library serves me correctly.

PaulieWalnuts 05-07-2004 09:03 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
omote is to enter straight through with the same leg that is forward(in ikkyo) then step through with back leg after taking ukes balance. Ura is to make tai-no henko(toe to toe) dont enter to deep,

Duval Culpepper 05-08-2004 03:02 PM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Thanks. Just got back from testing.

It went well, I just did omote four times (instead of two omote, and two ura) on shomenuchi ikkyo, but the rest went very well. Though I'm not sure, I think Yamada Sensei said we all passed.

Guess I'll find out on monday.

Paul Sanderson-Cimino 05-08-2004 04:35 PM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
I will second Gaia's remark (that's a cool name, by the way): you are training at a truly "elite" dojo, with a fantastic instructor. I'm sure the sempai/sensei there could not only define the terms, but help you understand their meaning.

As for my guess? Well, we don't say omote or ura in Yoshokai, we just say "#1" (~omote?) and "#2" (~ura). I think I'm starting to figure out why techniques are classified the way they are. The common phrase we use at our dojo is "#1 is reversing uke's direction, #2 is keeping them going the same direction."

Orihime 05-10-2004 02:53 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
[quote=
As for my guess? Well, we don't say omote or ura in Yoshokai, we just say "#1" (~omote?) and "#2" (~ura). I think I'm starting to figure out why techniques are classified the way they are. The common phrase we use at our dojo is "#1 is reversing uke's direction, #2 is keeping them going the same direction."[/QUOTE]
In my club we say "omote" and "ura", but more often "positive" (omote) and "negative" (ura). I wonder why.

erikmenzel 05-11-2004 10:48 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
For what it is worth. I have been told by several students of o'sensei that he never used the terms omote and ura but simply reffered to them as #1 and #2. Of course it is possible that I missunderstood them completely.

aikidoc 05-11-2004 11:07 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Jun:

I like your explanation as it is one I have used. Location for omote/ura; Movement for irmin/tenkan. I also use how one moves for uchi/soto (turning inside or turning outside).

George S. Ledyard 05-11-2004 11:18 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Quote:

Erik Jurrien Knoops wrote:
For what it is worth. I have been told by several students of o'sensei that he never used the terms omote and ura but simply reffered to them as #1 and #2. Of course it is possible that I missunderstood them completely.

If you train with John Stevens Sensei, who was a student of Shirata Sensei, you get the numbering system as you describe.

akiy 05-11-2004 11:52 AM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Quote:

John Riggs wrote:
I also use how one moves for uchi/soto (turning inside or turning outside).

Yup -- I also use "uchi" and "soto" for variations of techniques like kaitennage and sankyo.

-- Jun

Duval Culpepper 05-12-2004 03:24 PM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
So what exactly is gokyu? Is that another term for 5th kyu?

Greg Jennings 05-12-2004 03:56 PM

Re: Question about omote and ura...
 
Quote:

Duval Culpepper wrote:
So what exactly is gokyu? Is that another term for 5th kyu?

http://www.aikiweb.com/language/ranks_k.html


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