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-   -   Sutemi from Shihonage (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5192)

aikiSteve 03-18-2004 12:16 PM

Sutemi from Shihonage
 
My Sensei has been teaching me how to take a Sutemi from Shihonage. It's pretty wild. Does anyone here regularly practice Shihonage with break falls?

Steve Nelson

Lan Powers 03-19-2004 09:12 PM

not often, it can be quite a scary thing if you are'nt really sure of the nage's control.

As we have done here so far, the arm isn't as bent so you uke)can turn into the throw.

Makes me worry about the elbows .

Lan

Got any tips for us?

Aikilove 03-20-2004 03:34 AM

Like in any breakfall it all about following with your center long long before actually fliping over.

E.g. in shihonage, there are basically two variations of sutemi.

1. Nage keeps the hand (ukes) close to the shoulder (ukes) and throws. Uke relaxes and follows with the upper body as long as possible before going around.

2. Nage lets out the hand from the shoulder allowing uke to take the breakfall as in say kotegaishi.

In both cases it about following as long as it is possible so that your center of gravity is as high as possible over the point of control (elbow/shoulder in #1, wrist/elbow in #2).

aikiSteve 03-20-2004 08:22 AM

Yeah, I've been learning the 2nd method Jakob mentioned. The elbow doesn't bend all that much, I have to twist my hips pretty hard to get into the right position so I don't get hurt. I practiced quite a bit by just doing forward rolls from that position. The nage has to have enough control to know when to let go to do the forward roll correctly. Then I slowly progressed into letting him hold on a little longer each time.

It's very much like kotegaishi, but it launches the uke off the ground. What a rush! :eek:

But... don't make the mistake of trying it with a nage that has never taken the fall. They won't know when to let go and will tweak your wrist pretty hard.

Steve Nelson

Paul Sanderson-Cimino 03-20-2004 01:08 PM

I'm familiar with a few forms of ukemi from shihonage. I hope I'm understanding the topic properly.

1) Pin form: Nage goes straight down to kneeling, hand beside foot. Uke bends back to follow with shoulders, not dropping hips. Important: Big slap from high up to take up impact. Should be simultaneous to avoid shoulder injury! I believe the purpose of this 'stylized' fall is to represent a very fast takedown where uke has no time to do anything but keep the chin tucked to the chest (general back breakfall rule) and slap to absorb force.

2) Throw form: Nage brings uke off-balance as usual for pre-takedown form. However, instead of going down, nage simply steps forward, extending through the arm. This brings uke off balance and sends them into a backward roll. When I say backward roll, I refer to a Yoshinkai/Yoshokai-style roll; one arm off to the side, the other hand protecting the head which is turned away from the extended arm, kick backwards as turn over.

Consult better sources than me before attempting either of these; I explain them for academic purposes, not as instruction.

creinig 03-21-2004 03:09 AM

Quote:

Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote:
I'm familiar with a few forms of ukemi from shihonage. I hope I'm understanding the topic properly.

1) Pin form: Nage goes straight down to kneeling, hand beside foot. Uke bends back to follow with shoulders, not dropping hips. Important: Big slap from high up to take up impact. Should be simultaneous to avoid shoulder injury! I believe the purpose of this 'stylized' fall is to represent a very fast takedown where uke has no time to do anything but keep the chin tucked to the chest (general back breakfall rule) and slap to absorb force.

Actually in our dojo (and the other Yoshinkan ones I've been exposed to so far) at advanced levels the takedown *is* done so fast that this fall is required. Still my second-scariest way to fall...
Quote:

2) Throw form: Nage brings uke off-balance as usual for pre-takedown form. However, instead of going down, nage simply steps forward, extending through the arm. This brings uke off balance and sends them into a backward roll.
From what I understand the original poster was asking about a different version: Execute the shihonage as for the types above, until before the cutting forward/down. Then, instead of having uke's hand behind his shoulder (elbow pointing up) and "folding him over", move the hand a bit to the outside until his elbow points to the side / towards you. Then (carefully!) do the cut. Either uke is relaxed and experienced enough to do a rather hefty high breakfall or his elbow breaks.

Lan Powers 03-21-2004 10:25 PM

hefty hi-fall indeed!

Lan

kensparrow 03-22-2004 10:55 AM

Shihonage has alway been my favorite breakfall. I think it's because the proximity to nage helps me keep my orientation through the fall. Recently though, my sempei have been doing it as more of a projection throw where they add a horizontal push and release me when I'm half way through the flip :freaky: . I still need a lot of work on my ukemi for that variation!


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