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-   -   How about Demonstration Competition? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5036)

DGLinden 02-20-2004 07:02 AM

How about Demonstration Competition?
 
I have always wanted to sponser a kind of competition, something that would spice up seminars and bring a lot of fun to annual gatherings.

Why not Demonstration Competition? Think of it as Gymnastics or Figure Skating on an aikido level.

You have a panel of judges. You have different dojos bring a practiced team to put on a demonstration. There are rules which require certain technique be included. There is latitude for creativity. If people can judge figure skating, gymnastics, et al then I have to believe Aikido demonstraion competition would bring a whole new excitement to seminars. Limit top people to sandan, weapons division, open dividion, etc. Women's teams, Junior teams, anything...

Most important, it would be fun and still be Aikido. And for a change you might get to win something. I'd put up a Champion's Cup that could be presented and passed arround.

Who knows, maybe it could eventually cross association lines. The Super Bowl of Aikido Competition IV ASU Vrs The Federation.

Have fun.

Yann Golanski 02-20-2004 07:42 AM

Hum.... Shodokan Aikido has that already.

Competition is not just randori with tanto. There's toshu, there's embu, there's free style. At the last world championships, the winers were doing some very traditional stuff.

http://www.wakefield-aikido.co.uk/multimedia.htm?

happysod 02-20-2004 07:56 AM

Daniel, you may want to look at xma "contests" to see what can happen to a martial art when winning is based primarily on demonstrations rather than combat.

L. Camejo 02-20-2004 09:35 AM

Interesting idea Daniel.

Actually I was recently thinking to myself if it were possible to invite other styles to the open embu portion of Shodokan tournaments.

Was thinking about testing the concept at my Aikido Festival later this year. Would make things interesting I think.

On another note I know that there have been Aikido styles that have competed in demonstration elements of Jujutsu or open style competitions and won as well. Saw it on ESPN some years ago though.

L.C.:ai::ki:

DGLinden 02-20-2004 10:48 AM

Ian, I think you missed the point. The idea is to demonstrate the most precise and perfect technique while being inovative and stimulating before a group of judges who are your seniors.

Also, by the way, to make things fun. Nothing extreme, just friendly "can you top this?" stuff. Fun. Remember when this was fun? Unless you're in the miltary or police agencies, that's why we all do this.

I remember old Baker Sensei used to say "If doing aikido makes you feel so serious, maybe you shouldn't do it...Life is joy."

happysod 02-20-2004 11:00 AM

Daniel, no not missing the point, but as soon as you mention awards/cross assoc etc. basically competition where "flash" can count, you can get problems.

The xma immediately sprang to mind as the program I watched showed very athletic ma practitioners who, because the trend was towards crowd pleasing (yet still difficult) techniques went the flashy route at the expense of the martial.

All for a bit of fun, but it would have to be managed very carefully for it not to be floating ukes and ki-blast strikes. Perhaps the ukes could be provided by a different association for each team and the level of cooperation for each demo assigned in public? Now that could be fun to watch, with both nage and uke being graded on their level...

DGLinden 02-20-2004 05:38 PM

I see. Yes, that is a valid point. You know, I think it would be beneficial to the art and to the students and teachers.

What is the Aikido Journal Expo in Vegas, after all, but an Aikido Demonstration Competition without handing out awards for winners. Each year we get the videos and sit around and see what the demonstrations amount to... Everybody holds up place cards in their mind givings scores and laughing or applauding...

I just thought it might be time to recognize it for what it is and revel in it. (not Vegas, that has it's own value) but the idea that we cannot do Aikido, therefore we could demonstrate Aikido. It goes back to the idea that we cannot mitigate a broken neck. We cannot mitigate a broken wrist or fractured tibia. So we can demonstrate what we do with accomplished ukes and let it be judged by a decent panel of judges.

And, once more, have fun.

You know, one of my best students ever, this is about twenty five years ago, was chosen for the Olympic team in Judo. He did not get to go because Jimmy Carter was an idiot, but that aside, he was thrilled to be able to represent our country in the Olympics.

People like competition, as least some do.

So this might be something that could bring a little 'Unit Integrety' into the dojo. Something that helps tie us all together.

Years ago, Hooker Sensei's students made the mistake of refering to my students as 'Linden's Thugs'! We have been having a lot of fun ever since!

JasonFDeLucia 02-20-2004 06:48 PM

Re: How about Demonstration Competition?
 
Quote:

Daniel Linden (DGLinden) wrote:
I have always wanted to sponser a kind of competition, something that would spice up seminars and bring a lot of fun to annual gatherings.

Why not Demonstration Competition? Think of it as Gymnastics or Figure Skating on an aikido level.

You have a panel of judges. You have different dojos bring a practiced team to put on a demonstration. There are rules which require certain technique be included. There is latitude for creativity. If people can judge figure skating, gymnastics, et al then I have to believe Aikido demonstraion competition would bring a whole new excitement to seminars. Limit top people to sandan, weapons division, open dividion, etc. Women's teams, Junior teams, anything...

Most important, it would be fun and still be Aikido. And for a change you might get to win something. I'd put up a Champion's Cup that could be presented and passed arround.

Who knows, maybe it could eventually cross association lines. The Super Bowl of Aikido Competition IV ASU Vrs The Federation.

Have fun.

I agree ,I think that the climax of such an event should be actual competition by carefully screened contestants, but the other half of grass roots growth must include exhibition by judgment like doing forms competition at karate tournaments, but with guidelines for accepted traditional forms, and or principles.

Because of the many facets you could imagine unbendable arm category, tachi dori etc. but never leave out the realistic, the actual or else politics will take the place of steroids.

PeterR 02-21-2004 02:28 AM

Quote:

Yann Golanski wrote:
Hum.... Shodokan Aikido has that already.

So do all the major styles of Aikido.

Somewhere, someplace - trophies have been awarded.

zachbiesanz 02-21-2004 10:41 AM

While I might enjoy watching such a competition, I would probably never enter one. I have a hard enough time losing a karaoke contest; I would never want to even conceive of the idea of aikidoka sleeping with the judges for better scores. That's not to say that I would take such an idea seriously, but things flash into my mind without warning or reason sometimes, and I'd prefer that that not be one of them.

Having winners means having losers too, and that strikes me as contrary to the very essence of aikido. I think Aiki Expo is great the way it is.

Yann Golanski 02-23-2004 02:52 AM

I have won _all_ the randori I have ever done. From the first one ever to the last one. My goal is to learn Aikido. Randori and other forms of competitions are just tools for me to learn. Hence, everytime I do it I learn therefore I win.

Sure, I don't get a nice plastic cup painted gold but then again, why would you want it?.... *grin*

PeterR 02-23-2004 03:27 AM

Quote:

Yann Golanski wrote:
Randori and other forms of competitions are just tools for me to learn. Hence, everytime I do it I learn therefore I win.

I like this guy.

One of the mental aspects of Tomiki's system is to overcome the kyousou and adopt the attitude expressed by Yann. Under the right circumstances (ie. a good teacher) it is surprisingly easy. Like all things in Aikido some need to work harder than others to achieve it but from very early on in the training the need is made clear.

Like the Aikido waza themselves, testing the concept under trying circumstances let's you know exactly where you stand. Your ego is challenged both physically and mentally.

Based on personal experience and observation the attitude expressed by Yann will improve your Aikido far faster than the win at all costs attitude that so many wrongly ascribe to people that do shiai. Randori is the chance to experiment and discover new strengths and weaknesses.

willy_lee 02-23-2004 03:16 PM

Quote:

Yann Golanski wrote:
Randori and other forms of competitions are just tools for me to learn. Hence, everytime I do it I learn therefore I win.

Hear, hear!

I've just started doing some judo training and I find that, although I fall rather more often than I throw in randori, I look forward to it more than any other training I've done. The mental game of tactics and reflex is so fun and energizing. And when I do finally get a throw to work it's such a rush :)

Heh, it always feels like the mats are as hard as cement at the beginning of practice, but during randori it feels soft as a pillow. ;)

=wl

JessePasley 02-24-2004 02:08 AM

Quote:

Sure, I don't get a nice plastic cup painted gold but then again, why would you want it?.... *grin*
Um, to drink beer out of at the party afterwards! Duh!

Yann Golanski 02-24-2004 02:54 AM

Jesse, I'm from the UK... Here (as in Bree) beer comes in _pints_ !!!

*grin*

<slightly off topic>

Now all pints (and most bottles) are made of glass that is designed to shatter rather than splinter. That way it's much harder to ``glass'' someone. Those are starting to replace the plastic pint cups at venues.

</slightly off topic>


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