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Gilles D'Hoker 01-25-2004 07:49 AM

Fear of flying?
 
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The technique I fear the most is Juji-nage... It feels like hanging in the air for a few seconds and slaming on the ground whitout any hands free :freaky:

Tell me,
what's your most feared fall on the tatami...

keep it safe
Gillius

Lan Powers 01-25-2004 10:46 AM

One of the kokyu-nages from ryokatatedori where nage enters under one arm and draws through the other hand to spin uke in place between their hands, one raised, one lowerd.... kind of like tenchinage in that.

I cannot describe it better, mores the pity, but it is quite easy for the uke to "tighten up" since it is a abrupt change in direction. If you are relaxed throughout, then no prob.....but tense up.......OUCH! (mostly 'cause of my bad shoulder on one side)

:-)

Lan

Don_Modesto 01-25-2004 12:20 PM

Re: Fear of flying?
 
Quote:

Gilles D&#039Hoker wrote:
Juji-nage....what's your most feared fall on the tatami...

Jujinage is up there, but not because of hang time. I don't like the feeling of not being able to escape a dangerous situation and when UKE sinks the entanglement well, I'm completely at his/her mercy. If they really crank the technique, it could mean a broken elbow very quickly.

One that's come to scare me is the occassional TAI OTOSHI or HARAI GOSHI for the danger they put my knee in. Sometimes NAGE affects KUZUSHI well enough, but has trapped the leg leaving my knee barred on their thigh or back as they crank me against it.

MEN NAGE is another scary one.

sanosuke 01-25-2004 09:54 PM

Quote:

Tell me,

what's your most feared fall on the tatami...
used to fear koshi-nage falls a lot, but with proper tips and training from a sensei i can overcome that now. for juji-nage roll you can practice by doing ukemi while your hand is kept together on your chest, thus you roll with no hand. good luck

philipsmith 01-26-2004 02:28 AM

Still scared of Koshi-waza (after 20+ years)

Broke some ribs during a test taking ukeme from Koshi-waza, still inhibits me unless tori is really comitted to throwing.

Nick Simpson 01-26-2004 07:24 AM

Nikkyo projection, I dont know what the correct term for it is, Ive rolled out of a watered down version of it once or twice but to get out of the real deal requires jumping very high before your wrist breaks. I think its illegal in the BAB or something.

Nafis Zahir 01-26-2004 11:50 AM

Re: Fear of flying?
 
Quote:

Gilles D&#039Hoker wrote:
The technique I fear the most is Juji-nage... It feels like hanging in the air for a few seconds and slaming on the ground whitout any hands free :freaky:

Gillius

Where I train, we learn to take care of the uke. When we throw someone with Juji-nage, once they're airborn, we let the slapping hand go so that they can take a better fall. Pass this idea along. The only technique I fear the most is anyone that Chiba Sensei may do to me. He gave me a nikkyo and my wrist was throbbing for 2 weeks!

Thalib 01-26-2004 05:12 PM

A junior of mine was always scared to fall from koshinage...

She screamed everytime I picked her up. Then my sensei came and said, "This is the only way she'll learn." She's still paying attention and suddenly he picked her up and just throw her, she screamed but landed safely. She got up and casually said, "Oh, I'm OK."

After that, I just kept throwing her immediately without suspending her midway. She screamed everytime but landed safely each time. She understands ukemi very well but lack confidence. After a few koshinage, she stopped screaming, and we all clapped.

I don't recommend this way to inexperienced practitioners. The way my sensei and I did the koshinage, although done swiftly and directly, took a lot of care for the uke safety. We made sure she'll land safely no matter what. We all see the need to build her confidence.

The way the I did the koshinage was that I completely turned her around until she was facing up then I let her go. This way her head completely cleared the ground. I wasn't exactly paying attention on how my sensei did it though.

Yoroshiku...

Jorge Garcia 01-26-2004 06:51 PM

Re: Re: Fear of flying?
 
Quote:

Nafis Zahir wrote:
Where I train, we learn to take care of the uke. When we throw someone with Juji-nage, once they're airborn, we let the slapping hand go so that they can take a better fall. Pass this idea along. The only technique I fear the most is anyone that Chiba Sensei may do to me. He gave me a nikkyo and my wrist was throbbing for 2 weeks!

Interesting that the nikkyo seems to have injured you. The best nikkyo I ever had put on me was by Akira Tohei sensei, 8th Dan. When he took my hand and wrist into himself, it felt like I was being sucked into a vacuum cleaner. The nikkyo was quick and hurt so much, I never felt it. My whole body just went down and I lost my breath and just barely had time to groan and close my eyes. It was all instinctive. I thought for a second I was going to pass out. Then just as quickly, he let me go and instantly, I was absolutely normal. It was amazing. I went from pain to peace and I didn't feel a thing neither was I sore later. I have always thought about that. It was super powerful and yet left no injury. Very strange indeed. I think he really knew how to do a nikkyo.

Best wishes,

Thalib 01-26-2004 10:34 PM

The best nikkyo to me was painless. There was no pain, but I fell down anyway. Think about that for a moment.

Joe Thambu Sensei of Shudokan (Yoshinkan Aikido), said during a seminar that it's (since this is Yoshinkan I'll use the Yoshinkan term) 1st control (ikkajo), 2nd (nikkajo) control, 3rd control (sankajo)... etc... not 1st pain, 2nd pain, 3rd pain... When I was his uke, I felt no pain what-so-ever.

The best techniques I've ever experienced done to me were painless but still have control. I'm still learning on how to implement this. Pain is not necessary, but pain do sometimes happen, but don't let pain be the goal of techniques execution. It is about control.

SeiserL 01-27-2004 09:39 AM

Juji-nage was very tough for me. Finally, with practice, I pretended my arm was out to being the roll and allowed by body to follow.

Koshi-nage was also tough. One day my Sensei threw me over and over again, each time into a safe breakfall. Its been okay sense.

Actually, it was never the fear of flying that bothered me, it was my negative fantasy about the landing.

Ron Tisdale 01-27-2004 10:54 AM

I agree with the comments about nikajo. I'm learning both ways, with and without pain. The best controls are on my center, through the joints, not on the joints. Makes a world of difference. Its interesting how some will automatically go to the shoulder control (uke's wrist against nage/shite's shoulder) when they fail initially to control the center. But this version really relies on pain and power for the control, and if there is any loss of posture on the part of shite, it is rife for opportunities for reversal (espcially sacrifice throws). There is an interesting article on aikido journal somewhere that speaks to this...I'll try to find it and post it.

I think the throws that make me most nervous are kubenage and varients of ganseki otoshi.

RT

Anders Bjonback 01-27-2004 01:56 PM

Koshinage. For some reason, I always tense up out of fear when taking ukemi for it. I think it's tied to when I was a little kid in judo, being thrown without knowing how to take falls correctly, being in pain with my breath knocked out of me after every throw.


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