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Amassus 01-21-2004 04:55 PM

What is aikido missing?
 
I was inspired to write this after reading the Compliments thread.

Many other aikidoka from my own club have either done another martial art or are thinking about adding to their aikido by going to something else.

Does this mean that aikido lacks something? Or does it mean that aikidoka are just more open minded to other ideas?

I know the lack of competition can cause aikidoka to wonder if they truely can deal with the pressure of someone really wanting to beat you down.

Thoughts?

SeiserL 01-21-2004 09:44 PM

What is Aikido missing?

IMHO, nothing.

Having trained and still practice other arts, I beleive thay all have something to offer. None are missing anything, but none are the whole thing or the only thing.

Jamie Stokes 01-22-2004 01:13 AM

Aikido, like other arts, is not a stand alone subject one size fits all.

Personally, i find that cross training to be complemetary.

Like having a right and a left hand.

One hand is quite good.

And you may get excellent dexterity with that hand.

But learning to use both hands together, or even the other hand, can bring depth and new perspective.

So wether it be training in a different Dojo, a different art, or a completely different field (like playing the flute or snow skiing or whatever) if you want to, you will find what you tell your self to seek.

As for open mindedness, I suspect theres another new thread, likely to be self congratulatory.

warmest regards,

Jamie

JessePasley 01-22-2004 03:04 AM

On one level, Aikido only lacks that which the practicioner is unwilling or unable to address. It seems that far too many people rely on their style or their teacher to provide them answers. At some point, a bit of personal responsibility goes a long way in training. Surprisingly, the attitude that styles lack things (as opposed to people) is fairly prevelent among MMAist-types...to some I've sparred before, the fact that I can handle myself on the ground for more than thirty seconds must have meant I have trained in wrestling or somesuch.

and now that i'm done pontificating and making broad declarations, Aikido, like any style, lacks plenty. Full-out randori, if you don't train in it, comes to mind. Striking skills could always be addressed more. The atemi-waza that I've learned so far are pretty cool for getting inside and provide a great base for full-bodied hits, but I could always use more. But really, that's a minor problem that can be made up by getting in some sparring practice before class. Another minor problem that I've seen is sometimes basic attacks (single punches and kicks) seems a bit too encased in Japanese paradigms (which makes sense of course, because I'm in Japan, haha); seeing karate-style lunge punches or yoko-geris make me cringe. Of course, this is also a minor problem...I have enough trust in Aikido to know that it's application should lend itself easily to muay that roundhouses or san shou side kicks....now I just have to train!

drDalek 01-22-2004 03:35 AM

This might be a bit off-topic to the rest of the discussion. Does anyone have any good suggestions for arts that are complimentary to Aikido?

I have classes on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays so I usually feel overly energetic on Tuesday and Thursday nights and I need something to burn off some of that excess energy.

I feel like working on the Atemi side of my Aikido so I thought that Wing-Chun would be a good close-up striking art to help deflect some of those sucker punches you get when you close the distance.

Any opinions?

Nick P. 01-22-2004 06:52 AM

Wynand,

For about 3 years now I have been wondering the same thing; in fact it's more like an itch I think I need to scratch.

I am considering either Kendo (to go 180-degrees in the opposite direction of "no-conflict") or Iaido (where there is no partner, just yourself). Both those observations are probably wrong, as I have never trained in Kendo, and only attended 2 Iaido classes. But they are my perceptions such as they are.

As for Deans original question:

1-Maybe I am missing something in my Aikido.

2-Maybe the Aikido I am being taught is missing something.

My .02$ at 8:00am (after being at work since 6:00 :(

JessePasley 01-22-2004 07:31 AM

Wynand,

Wing chun could be pretty interesting, as it, like Aikido, is pretty big into the center-line issue. Depending on the school, though, the footwork might be atrocius. Like many Chinese martial arts, it seems, proper footwork seems relegated to more advanced levels. But I'm sure your Aikido training will work that out pretty quickly.

You should also look into baji or xingyi. I have been impressed with both of those before and I think they would fit in nicely with your aikido training.

Nick,

Totally go for Kendo. I practice it now when I find the time. It's a total blast. I think you'll actually find a lot of kendo very similar to aikido: incredible attention to distancing, timing, etc., and powerful body movement. And, hell, it's really, really fun.

paw 01-22-2004 07:52 AM

Quote:

Does anyone have any good suggestions for arts that are complimentary to Aikido?
It depends. What do you feel is lacking in your normal training?

physical fitness? Join a gym, yoga studio, pilates, etc...

atemi? Consider boxing....

groundwork? Wrestling, judo, bjj, sambo....

traditional weapons? Iaido, kendo, kali...

modern weapons? Investigate tactical firearm training, chemical sprays....

philosophy? Go back to school and take classes, join a "reading group".....

spirituality? Organized religion, self-study, work for a charity .....

Regards,

Paul

bhayl 01-22-2004 01:18 PM

Quote:

Wynand van Dyk (drDalek) wrote:
Does anyone have any good suggestions for arts that are complimentary to Aikido?

I currently crosstrain in brazilian jiu-jitsu (bjj twice per week and aikido three times per week) and I personnally find that it is very complimentary to the blending principal of aikido. The philosophy behind how each style deals with an attack is the same, i.e. take what they give you and blend with it, so there are no conflicts and no confusion when switching between classes. In that sense, for lack of a better term, it is "aikido on the ground."

PeterR 01-22-2004 07:53 PM

Quote:

Jesse Pasley (JessePasley) wrote:
I think you'll actually find a lot of kendo very similar to aikido: incredible attention to distancing, timing, etc., and powerful body movement. And, hell, it's really, really fun.

If someone were to ask if this or that Aikido is good - the above is my criteria. Could not care less how fancy the waza get.

As Budo - good Aikido is complete.

However, in all martial arts (Japanese or otherwise) a degree a speciallization has occured. Even in so-called Sogo Budo. That means that the practitioners are probably better at what they do then they would be if they had to learn everything and conversely, there are situational and technical holes.

As such I don't look for cross-training as supplementing my Aikido so much as an opprotunity to practice my Aikido under different conditions. Of course there are technical skills that come with the package.

I personally recommend that any Aikido practioner should do at least one year of a grappling art and one year of a PK art. I have yet to see anything which interferes with Aikido and if its good Budo - eyes will be opened.

At the moment I do Judo - mainly to up my randori practice.

sanosuke 01-23-2004 02:49 AM

Re: What is aikido missing?
 
Quote:

Dean Suter (Amassus) wrote:
I was inspired to write this after reading the Compliments thread.

Many other aikidoka from my own club have either done another martial art or are thinking about adding to their aikido by going to something else.

Does this mean that aikido lacks something? Or does it mean that aikidoka are just more open minded to other ideas?

I know the lack of competition can cause aikidoka to wonder if they truely can deal with the pressure of someone really wanting to beat you down.

Thoughts?

every martial art have their own plus and minus points, even aikido. But that doesn't mean that it is aikido that lacks something. instead it's us humans who always feel that way. But this feeling of lacking something is indeed open our mind to new ideas, new arts and new concepts, which i think is a good thing to do. i mean, we can't always think aikido is the best art, there's always sky above the sky.

Jesse Lee 01-23-2004 06:34 PM

Aikido training for me personally is lacking in that the attacks are too stylized for my tastes. This has been the case everywhere I have ever trained, which includes three home dojos and seminars/classes here and there.

If one wants realistic attacks, like clinches and shoots, punches including hooks/haymakers/overhands/uppercuts/jabs, and straight punches to anywhere o/t solar plexus, or attacks with padded baseball bats or guns, or basically anything outside of the core aikido curriculum, then one apparently must train outside of the normal class schedule, or just wait for the occasional unusual lesson from the teacher.

Let's be clear -- That is no failing whatsoever of aikido, just a personal gripe I have with the Aikido pedagogy that I (in my limited experience) have always bumped into. Practicing the core Aikido attacks is not enough to feed my need.

The subject has been debated on this forum ad infinitum e nauseam, and counterarguments usually run along the lines of: Training in core aikido will eventually equip you with the means to deal with all those one-off attacks, since they are all variations on those core attacks.

That rings hollow to me. Without a doubt there is *some* truth to it, but it seems a distant second to actually training for the real deal.

Thalib 01-23-2004 07:04 PM

Lee-san, my latin is not that good. Could you please explain to me what "ad infinitum e nauseam" means?

Qatana 01-23-2004 07:07 PM

Basically it means on and on and on and on and on until it makes you sick.

Jesse Lee 01-23-2004 07:15 PM

or at least mildly queasy :P

carloguevarra 01-23-2004 08:53 PM

i think there is really nothing missing in aikido. i think it actually completes something in ourselves. our opinions sometimes lead us very far from what we are searching so i think we should stop having opinions. like what they say, just train and train.

Jeanne Shepard 01-24-2004 06:23 PM

Is Aikido missing?!

Did someone take it?!!

Or did we just misplace it?

Jeanne

Clayton Kale 01-25-2004 10:28 AM

Quote:

Jesse Lee wrote:
If one wants realistic attacks, like clinches and shoots, punches including hooks/haymakers/overhands/uppercuts/jabs, and straight punches to anywhere o/t solar plexus, or attacks with padded baseball bats or guns ...

Jesse, you just described Nihon Goshin Aikido where likely real-life attacks are what we train for (therefore, we rarely use bokken). We also do defense from knives, kicks, multiple man (at higher levels), ground work.

I feel like I should get a hold of what I'm studying before I consider cross training.

Cheers.

cek

sanosuke 01-25-2004 10:04 PM

Quote:

Jeanne Shepard wrote:
Is Aikido missing?!

Did someone take it?!!

Or did we just misplace it?

Jeanne

I like that, Jeanne ;)


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