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-   -   What level do you start wearing Hakama? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4166)

villrg0a 07-20-2003 09:19 PM

What level do you start wearing Hakama?
 
At our dojo, yellow belts (3rd kyu) already wears Hakama. Just curious....

YEME 07-20-2003 10:54 PM

At our dojo its shodan.

but i've seen some where they promote wearing them from day one.

Hanna B 07-20-2003 11:24 PM

Third kyu (white belt until shodan).

Kevin Wilbanks 07-20-2003 11:27 PM

Check the archives. This discussion has been done many times. In general, the whole idea of associating the hakama with any rank is a relatively new invention, nothing O'Sensei prescribed, and frankly just plain silly. Remember the old parable of the Sneetches by Dr. Seuss?

http://www.thericehouse.net/twiki/bi...ssTheSneetches

villrg0a 07-21-2003 12:06 AM

okidoki, me now checking for old threads related to this inquiry. thanks!

C. Emerson 07-21-2003 12:52 AM

Ask Ted, he'll recommend a place near your residence, where you can go and ask the same question.

-Chad

Dave Miller 07-21-2003 08:33 AM

I think that some styles, particularly the Tomiki-ryu styles, don't wear hakama at all.

Carl Simard 07-21-2003 10:47 AM

3rd kyu for us. But there's no obligation to wear one.

Fausto 07-21-2003 12:11 PM

Well from what i know it depends on the dojo for example in some dojos you can wear a hakama since the first class in others form 3°Kyu (always and in others just in your own dojo not at seminars), 2°kyu (always also at seminars) and some other untill shodan.

It really depends on the style you are doing.

villrg0a 07-21-2003 08:58 PM

Thank you all for you kind response(s).

Bronson 07-21-2003 11:11 PM

I haven't seen anyone post anything similar to ours so I'll put it out there.

To start wearing a hakama in our dojo you must be at least a nikyu and be teaching in some way, either as an assitant in a class or teaching a class of your own.

Bronson

villrg0a 07-21-2003 11:36 PM

Quote:

Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
I haven't seen anyone post anything similar to ours so I'll put it out there.

To start wearing a hakama in our dojo you must be at least a nikyu and be teaching in some way, either as an assitant in a class or teaching a class of your own.

Bronson

Bronson

Same thing in our dojo, 3rd Kyu can wear hakama and be by the sensei's side during bowing, etc - thus the start of teaching OJT

Kensai 07-22-2003 06:08 AM

For us, the ladies wear them from day one, the lads start wearing them at 1st Dan.

Dennis Hooker 07-22-2003 06:51 AM

When?

Well if you are in a dojo where they don't wear gi pants then you better start at day one. Other wise start as early as you can because the damn things are hard to learn to move in with out breaking a toe or pulling a hamstring.

Personally I hate gi pants especially when I am doing iaijutsu. Also in Aikido when doing shikko. I find biking shorts to be the best so far. Nothing under it would be great, but I would get taken away.

Anders Bjonback 07-22-2003 03:47 PM

I don't know what the standard in my dojo is... but I guess here you can start wearing one after your sixth kyu test, but it can also wait--I've seen people who are much more experienced than me not wearing them. It's a symbol of one's dedication to the art. I got mine just before my sixth kyu test.

the slayer 07-29-2003 07:13 AM

Hi, in our dojo the ladys can where them after they pass there 6th kyu.the men have to wait till their dan grade as i think in past years the gi used to be underwear so thats why the ladys can where them so they can cover there (underwear).and in our dojo it is white belt all the way up to 1st kyu then black belt at dan.

PeterR 07-29-2003 07:14 AM

Don't wear them - ever.

Kevin Wilbanks 07-29-2003 07:54 AM

I think a very important and oft-overlooked reason that everyone should wear hakama is so that we don't have to look at other people's butt-sweat.

Goye 07-29-2003 08:24 AM

Quote:

Don't wear them - ever.
Hi Peter,... why?:freaky:

I use it since nikyu and have found good things of wearing it.

formerjarhead 07-29-2003 09:04 AM

Women from 2Kyu, brown belt and men from Shodan. As for under garments, we always wear a gi.

PeterR 07-29-2003 09:15 AM

Quote:

César Martínez (Goye) wrote:
Hi Peter,... why?:freaky:

I use it since nikyu and have found good things of wearing it.

I answered the question in the poll about injuries and hakama. I am sure the are other reasons people in Shodokan dojos normally don't. From what I understand Yoshinkan people also normally don't even though they don't do the same sort of randori. Of course the real reason may be that members of the two above groups don't have sweaty-butts (as per Kevin's post).

Personally speaking when I do wear one (linked to my time training in Aikikia dojos) I found them restrictive and cumbersom. I thought I looked pretty good in the thing but fashion is not a reason. Well the Shodokan fashion is not to wear them so I guess it is a reason.

Kevin Wilbanks 07-29-2003 09:39 AM

Quote:

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Personally speaking when I do wear one (linked to my time training in Aikikia dojos) I found them restrictive and cumbersom. I thought I looked pretty good in the thing but fashion is not a reason. Well the Shodokan fashion is not to wear them so I guess it is a reason.

I think many consider wearing the hakama an important part of repsecting and continuing the tradition - like bowing procedures. I think you could say the same about the gi itself. I think traditional aesthetics are an important part of the art. Reducing this to "fashion" seems a bit crude.

If you're going to start tossing out everything you find inconvenient or impractical, the next thing you know Aikido will be like MMA, where it's basically just a bunch of guys in threadbare t-shirts and sweatpants training in a place that looks like an old garage.

However, if we were going that way, from a comfort/practicality standpoint, I'd say the best-feeling attire I've worn is a soft, thin gi with the side-ties on the top tied and no belt - vastly more comfortable and relaxed-feeling than being strapped into a hakama and obi.

PeterR 07-29-2003 11:10 AM

Quote:

Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
I think many consider wearing the hakama an important part of repsecting and continuing the tradition - like bowing procedures. I think you could say the same about the gi itself. I think traditional aesthetics are an important part of the art. Reducing this to "fashion" seems a bit crude.

If you're going to start tossing out everything you find inconvenient or impractical, the next thing you know Aikido will be like MMA, where it's basically just a bunch of guys in threadbare t-shirts and sweatpants training in a place that looks like an old garage.

Um Kevin - the founders of the two groups I mentioned were early uchideshi of the founder. I didn't toss anything and I suspect both Kenji Tomiki and Gozo Shioda are far more qualified to comment on history and tradition of Aikido than you or I. The choice of daily practice wear goes back to them. I've never seen a member of a Japanese Aikido dojo blink over the fact that I didn't wear a hakama. Judo guys don't, karate guys don't, several Koryu that I've seen don't - other groups do. It really is a matter of choice and fashion.

The hakama may be an important part of the Aikido you practice however in Shodokan it is theorectically to be used only in the most formal of occasions. I would say that even in Aikikai groups the majority of current practioners don't wear the hakama. It can't be all that important.

Kevin Wilbanks 07-29-2003 01:57 PM

The attempted argument citing that some branches or groups do not wear the hakama is specious. Some religions incorporate formal prayer rituals and some do not. It doesn't follow that prayer rituals are therefore not an important part of adherence to religious tradition to those who adhere to them, or that the practice is a matter of fashion.

To me, "fashion" connotes an entirely different sort of dynamic: transient, superficial, maybe even somewhat whimsical, and something that is done to garner attention or approval from peers/onlookers. 'Choice' certainly isn't applicable - at least not on an individual level. In most dojo I've run across, wearing a hakama or not is a matter of following the rules and doing things the way your teacher does them. The only element in which there is much of a choice or fashion decision is in whether to get a blue or black one, and whether to get a light or heavy fabric.

kironin 07-29-2003 03:26 PM

Quote:

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
I've never seen a member of a Japanese Aikido dojo blink over the fact that I didn't wear a hakama. Judo guys don't, karate guys don't, several Koryu that I've seen don't - other groups do. It really is a matter of choice and fashion.

Wearing a hakama really does help secure my saya and making drawing and putting away my sword more controlled and therefore increases safety. So in that case, I consider it a necessary part of my practice outfit for iaido.

It also covers up whatever shorts or colorfully unfashionable gym pants I am wearing underneath. And that like Dennis says can be considered a benefit for my partners. :)

Craig


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