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-   -   is it wrong to learn aikido mainly just for self-defense (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4122)

ewodaj 07-10-2003 03:41 PM

is it wrong to learn aikido mainly just for self-defense
 
purposes? I know there is a lot more to aikido than just learn how to defend yourself, but I just want to know what you peoople think of people who just want to learn aikido for defending themselves...im very impressed by aikido ever since I seen steven seagal doing it in his movies...

shihonage 07-10-2003 03:59 PM

A rain of fruity replies in 3... 2... 1...

Goye 07-10-2003 04:02 PM

I don't think it is wrong,... I always say that what is really important is to find the reason of being on the dojo,... If your motivation is self defense,... that is valid,,.. if it is spirituality,.. that is also very good,.. Aikido has many faces and every body has to be aware of which is that one that fits into his/her motivation.:cool:

Alfonso 07-10-2003 04:19 PM

well, look around and you'll find a top ten list of wrong reasons to do aikido

:p

Charles Hill 07-10-2003 04:41 PM

I seriously doubt that there are many (any?) people who have clearly looked at what real self defense entails and then started an Aikido practice (or probably any other martial art) that continues for any length of time with the main motivation in continuing being self defense.

Charles Hill

kironin 07-10-2003 04:56 PM

Re: is it wrong to learn aikido mainly just for self-defense
 
There is nothing wrong in wanting to learn aikido to defend yourself. It just may be hard

to sustain your commitment to the frequency of training over a length of time required to gain some modest proficiency if your only interest in aikido is defending yourself. It's a fairly common theme among many long time martial arts practitioners that they began because of an interest in being better able to defend themselves. It's also true that they found other things about the art(s) they practice that appealed to them and compelled them to stay at it over a long time.

I am in my second decade of aikido now and it's a complex relationship. :) My thinking on just what self-defense is has morphed quite a bit over time and as I continue to train from week to week, sometimes the self-defense facet is large, important and sometimes I could care less because there are so many other things about my practice that I find interesting and want to explore.

Craig

PeterR 07-10-2003 05:47 PM

The key word is continue - budo sort of grows on you doesn't it (still chuckling about the fungal take downs).

Louis - you do Aikido for your reasons and self defence as primary reason is as valid as any other. Over time your motives may change (or not) but that doesn't mean your present motives are wrong.
Quote:

Charles Hill wrote:
I seriously doubt that there are many (any?) people who have clearly looked at what real self defense entails and then started an Aikido practice (or probably any other martial art) that continues for any length of time with the main motivation in continuing being self defense.

Charles Hill


DaveForis 07-10-2003 07:53 PM

Self-defense is always an acceptible motivation. Bout you have to be absolutely certain that Aikido is the right method to reach that goal. Steven Segal is 1) a high-ranking black belt and 2) an actor. Personally, I wouldn't take Aikido for self-defense (good thing that wasn't my original motivation too!) You'll become proficient in using Aikido for self-defense purposes in... about 10 years. Aikido is a high-level art, both technically and morally, and it completely overlooks the nasty, brutal, and often necessary basics of hitting back at whoever is attacking you. (The Aikido "I don't want to hurt my partner" mindset that you often find does not work so hot for building self-defense skills. At ALL.) I suggest taking something else too, a soft style like Kung Fu or what have you (hard styles and Aikido don't mix well), so that you can be able to handle yourself within a relatively short (compared to Aikido) period of time. When you have those basics of attack and defense down, and you have confidence (couKIghs) and focus because you know you can handle yourself, then Aikido may just work out great for you and help to further any ability you develop as a martial artist.

PeterR 07-10-2003 08:02 PM

Dave - there are Aikido dojos that can prepare you for most self defence situations in a very short time. I think that if you choose a dojo that takes 10 years to get you to a reasonable level of competency in Aikido for self defence or any purpose you have chosen badly.

ewodaj 07-10-2003 08:59 PM

Quote:

Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Dave - there are Aikido dojos that can prepare you for most self defence situations in a very short time. I think that if you choose a dojo that takes 10 years to get you to a reasonable level of competency in Aikido for self defence or any purpose you have chosen badly.

I agree 100%

Veers 07-10-2003 09:01 PM

Quote:

You'll become proficient in using Aikido for self-defense purposes in... about 10 years.
*tenkans* Oops, your punch missed. Excuse me while I dodge some more. :)

(No, I'm not so green as to believe that dodges will get you through everything...just making a point.)

Anyway...

Louis, I believe what's been said should suffice...but let me add that while that was probably the biggest motivation of mine, it wasn't the only one. Others included learning (anything...learning=good), satisfying a curosity I had had for several years, athletic activity, and learning.

PhilJ 07-10-2003 09:12 PM

I liked a story Gaku Homma sensei tells about kids. A young student wasn't doing well in his academic studies and the parents talked to Homma sensei. He, in turn, talked to the student, and found that there was an extreme lack of interest on the student's part.

He told the student to just pretend to pay attention, even if he really wasn't -- just fake it.

You see where this goes, the student's grades went up dramatically because though he started faking, he eventually did pay attention.

I think this is how fungal budo can be. :) (I love that word, incorporating into my lexicon now...)

*Phil

Veers 07-10-2003 09:19 PM

Reminds me of what C. S. Lewis said, Philip...if there's someone you can't stand, just pretend you like them when you're around them, and you'll find yourself liking them more, or at least not-liking them less.

Kyri Honigh 07-10-2003 10:39 PM

Hmmm I think that you have a fair reason. I too believe that it should be about being able to defend yourself first and then other goals.I know I know..aikido is about self-improvement. But how can you improve yourself without having the confidence of not being a push over. I want to be a "warrior". Someone who leads a life of dignity and who dares to fight for his ideals. But most importantly: enroll now in aikido training ( choose a good dojo)!! Succes

PhilJ 07-10-2003 11:42 PM

I'll second Kyri's opinion. I take aikido because I like to apply it to helping others, making my work life easier to manage.

When I was a counselor as a kid in highschool, we had a major rule, among others: Don't let someone else's problems become your own. Later, my sensei said something similar: Don't play uke's game.

Those lines said, if I don't have "Phil", I can't do all the neat stuff in class. So, if you can't protect yourself first, how can you protect others, help others, and so on.

I know we're treading a bit off-topic, but I think it's worth noting that you can (and need) to be able to protect yourself, and at the same time, learn/enhance the values you're looking to change (if any). It's worth noting because we can easily miss the most basic benefit of aikido, the physical, self-defense level.

*Phil

C. Emerson 07-11-2003 09:38 AM

Aikido offers alot, Self defense is one of those. If thats all you are interested in, you can take a much shorter route getting to where you want to go.

If fighting is all thats important, than that is a sign of a person who has not evolved much.

People who train in Aikido get the big picture. It's a lifestyle, not a boxing ring.

bob_stra 07-11-2003 10:21 AM

Quote:

Aleksey Sundeyev (shihonage) wrote:
A rain of fruity replies in 3... 2... 1...

*throws fruit at Aleksey*

;-)

ewodaj 07-11-2003 10:48 AM

Quote:

Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
Aikido offers alot, Self defense is one of those. If thats all you are interested in, you can take a much shorter route getting to where you want to go.

If fighting is all thats important, than that is a sign of a person who has not evolved much.

People who train in Aikido get the big picture. It's a lifestyle, not a boxing ring.

If fighting is all thats important, than that is a sign of a person who has not evolved much.

thats not a fair statement chad...a fair amount of people take up martial arts for self-defense reasons and theres no denying that...you can go on about aikido being a spiritual martial art and so on, but the fact remains that it can be used as a self-defense method and a very good one at that...

C. Emerson 07-11-2003 11:33 AM

I agree Louis, All I'm saying is that if you would speak to an instructor or master. They would tell you that they are involved in any martial art for more than the reason of self defense. Confidence, esteem, interest, spirituality, what ever. I think that the self defense issue is a common one in the begining.

paw 07-11-2003 11:39 AM

Quote:

All I'm saying is that if you would speak to an instructor or master. They would tell you that they are involved in any martial art for more than the reason of self defense.
It depends on the instructor and the martial art. Some remain focused on self-defense through out their entire lives. IMO, that's a good thing, as these instructors are generally at the forefront in instructing law enforcement, military, rape prevention classes and other similar applications that to my way of thinking are beneficial.

Regards,

Paul

Eric Joyce 07-11-2003 11:49 AM

Louis,

Think about the question you asked. With all do respect, the question is a little silly. Yes it can be used for defense and yes it can be used for spiritual growth. It seems a lot of people ask questions they may already know the answers to. Sorry if I seem a little irrate, but the BB are starting to get a lot of questions like this.

ewodaj 07-11-2003 01:16 PM

Quote:

Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
I agree Louis, All I'm saying is that if you would speak to an instructor or master. They would tell you that they are involved in any martial art for more than the reason of self defense. Confidence, esteem, interest, spirituality, what ever. I think that the self defense issue is a common one in the begining.

I think with some people chad they first take up a martial art for self-defense reasons, but as they get into it they realize that it can be a spiritual thing for them as well...I dont discriminate against anyone that is taking martial arts for whatever reason(s) they choose...I agree with you when you said self-defense is a common thing in the beginning, but as I said above, the more you get into it, the more you value the other aspects of martial arts like you said spirituality, self-esteem, motivation, etc...you speak the truth tho chad...

ewodaj 07-11-2003 01:19 PM

Quote:

Eric Joyce wrote:
Louis,

Think about the question you asked. With all do respect, the question is a little silly. Yes it can be used for defense and yes it can be used for spiritual growth. It seems a lot of people ask questions they may already know the answers to. Sorry if I seem a little irrate, but the BB are starting to get a lot of questions like this.

well, I already do know the answer to this question eric, but im curious to see what you all think...you may think im egotistical or something of that nature for asking a question like this...seems taking up a martial art mainly for self-defense reasons is a kick in the face to some martial artists for some reason or another...probably because they treat martial arts and all of its aspects with the same respect they take the fighting/training...

jvadakin 07-11-2003 03:46 PM

Louis, what various options (i.e. martial arts) are you considering? I hope you will post to tell us all what you finally decide to do.

Dave Miller 07-11-2003 04:19 PM

Quote:

Jonathan Lyons (Veers) wrote:
Reminds me of what C. S. Lewis said, Philip...if there's someone you can't stand, just pretend you like them when you're around them, and you'll find yourself liking them more, or at least not-liking them less.

So would that be "Aiki-peas"? :D :p LOL


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