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-   -   Art of Peace better than Art of War ? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401)

aikilouis 11-15-2000 04:52 PM

I've been re-reading Sun Tzu's Art of War, and I came across this sentence (translated from french, my mother language) : 'winning all fights is not the highest achievement ; submitting the enemy without fighting IS the highest achievement'.
It made me think it was not absolutely true. In my opinion O Sensei created Aikido for an even higher purpose that could be summed up this way : 'making a friend out of your enemy and restoring general peace is the real achievement'.
Can you tell me if I'm right ?

LR Neveu

Keith 11-15-2000 09:58 PM

Quote:

Can you tell me if I'm right ?
No, but I don't think you need me to.

Keith Engle

Nick 11-16-2000 10:50 AM

IMO, it all goes back to yin/yang. Without war there is no peace, witohut peace there is no war. Our objective as aikidoka (or even budoka) is to use our art of peace to avoid using the art of war.

-Nick

ian 11-16-2000 11:15 AM

Surely peace is only the yang aspect. If we're going to have peace we need to be prepared to make war. I have no doubt that if either the UK or the US decided to disband its military we would have one of the largest wars the world has ever seen. I'm sure you'll all disagree with me, but if you pursue the negative and ignore the positive yin and yang will surely be out of balance.

Back to the original question; I think Sun Tzu is just dealing with the practicalities of war i.e. it is a very costly business whether you ultimately win or loose.

I must admit I don't know enough about O'Sensei to say whether he would have said anything like that. However it certainly has the christian ethic behind it - you try telling that to people who are about to get wiped out in acts of genocide (such as the kurds) and I think they may feel differently.

Peace making works if both of you have to benefit from the processes.

Ian

tarik 12-07-2000 04:43 PM

Quote:

aikilouis wrote:
'winning all fights is not the highest achievement ; submitting the enemy without fighting IS the highest achievement'.

It made me think it was not absolutely true. In my opinion O Sensei created Aikido for an even higher purpose that could be summed up this way : 'making a friend out of your enemy and restoring general peace is the real achievement'.

Depends on how you accomplish that. I personally don't think that the statements are different.

Fighting is about getting your way. If you win without physical combat, whether you've made a friend of your enemy or not, you've fulfilled the goal mentioned in Art of War.

Accomplishing the friendship in addition is a bonus and I don't really think that Aikido necessarily advocates that, although it is a nice plus and something we say is desirable.


shadow 12-08-2000 09:56 PM

Quote:

Nick wrote:
IMO, it all goes back to yin/yang. Without war there is no peace, witohut peace there is no war. Our objective as aikidoka (or even budoka) is to use our art of peace to avoid using the art of war.

-Nick

this doesn't make sense to me nick.

Without peace, there is only war as far as I know

and without war how can there be no peace? what is there instead?

Nick 12-09-2000 09:28 AM

What I meant was that without one, the other wouldn't really have a name- it would just be life. If there was never any war, we would stop thinking about "peacetime" and just think of it as daily living, and the reverse is true. Even if one existed without the other, we wouldn't realize it.

Nick


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