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drDalek 05-29-2003 05:13 AM

Other grappling arts
 
Please recommend to me some other grappling arts I could try, I enjoy Aikido greatly but its my first and only MA so far and I want to get a taste of what else is out there.

I dont want to do a kick/punch MA because frankly just from observing some karate classes, I am bored to tears.

I am thinking of finding a judo / bjj place somewhere.

PeterR 05-29-2003 05:24 AM

I'ld go for Judo - basically the emphasis on BJJ is the ground while in Judo you get something a bit more balanced. In both you get randori which in most cases Aikido lacks.

I started Judo after I moved here to supplement and help my Aikido - in fact I'm leaving for Judo in about 5 seconds. Good fun.

Michael Neal 05-29-2003 07:53 AM

I recommend Judo as well, it compliments Aikido well and you definately won't be bored.

Grappler 05-29-2003 08:10 AM

BJJ all the way. Its awesome, the best when it comes to ground grappling. And all the BJJ guys I've met have been great people too.

If there is no BJJ dojo around, try one of the following:

Sambo - sambo is like freestyle wrestling with some submissions allowed. A lot of emphasis on takedowns and leglocks.

Judo - probably the best style to take a gi-wearing opponent to the ground. A lot of emphasis on throws. Not as effective with no gi. It is also an olympic sport, so it has a wide following. But pick the dojo carefully, a lot of bad ones around, especially outside of Japan.

Wrestling (Freestyle/Greco)- Also an olympic sport. If you want grappling with no gi, this is a good pick. It is more of a power game than technique, so a good muscle mass is recommended :) A lot of emphasis on takedowns and position control on the ground.

The most competent fighters I've met started off as freestyle wrestlers, moved on to BJJ and cross trained in a striking art like boxing or Muay Thai. Master the wrestling-BJJ-kickboxing combo and you'll be a living demolition machine :)

Eric Joyce 05-29-2003 10:15 AM

Wynand,

Either choice is fine. You really can't go wrong.

L. Camejo 05-29-2003 10:21 AM

Hi folks,

In my book, Judo and Aikido follow very similar, if not the same principles applied to different combative distances (ma ai).

Have done some Judo and BJJ as well. To me, there is a very easy and logical flow from standing Aikido techs to standing Judo into Judo ne waza (floor grappling). One can easily move back and forth among them depending on the situation in my experience.

If you are looking for something to complement your Aikido with floor grappling and a knowledge of non-aikido type throws and pins, I would recommend Judo. Not to mention, the balance breaking and combination knowledge gained from Judo randori is a major aid to applying Aikido techs and making things effective.

For an Aikidoka I'd recommend the Judo over BJJ, since in Aikido our main area of operation is standing up. BJJ tends to want to get you to the ground to grapple you into submission on the floor, even if you begin the encounter from standing.

Honestly, I think if you are in control from a standing position (which is our aim in Aikido), why risk going to the ground and then trying to establish a superior position to apply tech? For the ground work, the BJJ is great, but I've seen nothing that makes it that different from skillfully applied Judo.

It depends on what you are looking for as said earlier. To a person not inclined to either one, I'd say try both. But having tried both BJJ and Judo, I prefer the Judo. Just blends better with the Aikido I do, which was founded by a high ranking Judoka and Aikidoka.

Check out the dojos, do some classes, see what feels best before you decide. In my book, certain people are predisposed to certain types of martial arts, psychologically and otherwise.

To be an effective fighter though, master the 3 basic realms of unarmed combat - standup striking, standup locking/throwing and floor grappling.

Hope this helps.

L.C.:ai::ki:

Kensai 05-29-2003 12:25 PM

I cross train in Judo. I think they gel very well, and dont really have many opposing ideas ie tensing for strikes (like karate).

Like Peter said, the more free Randori of Judo helps your reactions which you can apply to jiyu kumite in your Aikido when you get to that level.

Daniel Blanco 05-29-2003 01:29 PM

HELLO PETER AND ALL I HAVE NEVER TAKEN ANY OTHER MA. AIKIDO IS THE ONLY ART I STUDY FOR TWO YEARS NOW BECAUSE OF MY LAW ENFORCEMENY JOB. BUT I THINK I MIGHT CROSS TRAIN IN JUDO. PETER DO YOU THINK IT WILL HELP HE AS A POLICE OFFICER JUDO THAT IS.

Daniel Blanco 05-29-2003 01:31 PM

PETER HOW HAVE YOU BEEN AND FAMILY HOPE ALL ARE FINE I SAID HI TO SENSEI GENE FOR YOU.

Dross 05-29-2003 02:41 PM

Aren't police in Japan are trained in Judo?

Dave Miller 05-29-2003 02:43 PM

Aikido is often called "Judo at a distance". This is, at least in part, perhaps due to Tomiki. He was one of Kano's judo students. So the story goes, Kano sent Tomiki to O-sensei to learn about this new thing called Aiki-budo. Kano wanted Tomiki to teach it to him so he could see if it might improve his Judo. Tomiki liked Aiki-budo so much that he stayed and developed his own style of Aikido and his own system for teaching it.

I know several shinans who are yudansha in both Judo and Aikido and they all highly recommend Judo as a compliment to Aikido and vice versa.

Kensai 05-29-2003 04:56 PM

The Japanese Riot Police train in Yoshinkan Aikido...... damn ruffens...... lol

PeterR 05-29-2003 07:50 PM

Hi Daniel;

First of all for sanities sake - control those caps - sounds like you are shouting. Gene has got a good dojo - some good strong characters in there. I would not do less of that just to do Judo. Both Judo and Aikido from what I understand are better suited for police work than the punch/kick arts from a tactical point of view.

Some of the Tokyo Riot (apparently the majority do not) do a year long Aikido course at Yoshinkan Honbu. I do not know what is taught at their training academy. I do know that Tetsuro Nariyama, Shodokan Honbu Shihan and my teacher, instructs at the Osaka Police Academy. I have no idea how different that stuff is to what we learn.

Finally Chris - Judo gives more of an opprotunity to mix things up than your Aikido. This is probably an important area to work on as a police officer. In Japan most do Judo.

Jesse Lee 06-02-2003 01:39 PM

It boils down to how you want to use your time. If you want more takedowns and less groundwork, try judo. If you want almost exclusive groundwork, go for BJJ.

Personally I agree with Andrew; I get off on BJJ. Feels like a great compliment to Aikido, maybe b/c it is *not* as similar to aikido as judo.

Dave Miller 06-03-2003 10:40 AM

Goshen ryu:
 
Pardon if my spelling is off. We have recently started introducing some of the kata of Goshen ryu into our regular workouts. As I understand it, Goshen ryu is a part of the Judo kata that is more of a blending of Judo and Aikido. The techniques definitely bear similarities to both.

Is anyone else familiar with this?

Ron Tisdale 06-03-2003 10:58 AM

Check with Mark F. over in the judo section of e-budo. I believe you are refering to the goshin kata in judo which is meant to preserve some of the more "combative" principles of the koryu from which judo is derived. They should have some good posts in that forum on this.

RT

Dave Miller 06-03-2003 12:06 PM

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:
Check with Mark F. over in the judo section of e-budo. I believe you are refering to the goshin kata in judo which is meant to preserve some of the more "combative" principles of the koryu from which judo is derived. They should have some good posts in that forum on this.

RT

I think that's what I'm talking about. I probably should have written Goshin jitsu rather than Goshin ryu. As an old Okinawan martial artist, I tend to write ryu when I mean jitsu.

;)

PeterR 06-03-2003 07:41 PM

Quote:

Dave Miller wrote:
I think that's what I'm talking about. I probably should have written Goshin jitsu rather than Goshin ryu. As an old Okinawan martial artist, I tend to write ryu when I mean jitsu.

The main guy involved in the committee that came up with Goshin Jutsu was of course Kenji Tomiki - the reason there is a strong Aikido influence. They did troll several Koryu for suitable techniques but most have a very strong aiki-flavour.

As a Shodokan person it is quite common to see references to other Koryu Jujutsu styles when discussing a technique (as also found there) and even though it is an Aikido technique, a kata is taken from the koryu and learnt that way.

sanosuke 06-04-2003 12:33 AM

Here's what I recommend:

Judo - good grappling and kuzushi techniques

BJJ - Basically Just Judo

How about taichi?

justinm 06-04-2003 10:19 AM

Cornish Wrestling.

Charles Hill 06-04-2003 12:55 PM

No one has brought up what I believe are two very important questions.

1. Is it necessary to go outside your chosen martial art? (for us, Aikido)

2. If yes, when would be a good time to start studying a supplementary martial art?

In my opinion, the biggest problem beginners run into is setting aside what they have learned before and clearly seeing and then trying what they are now being presented with. Again, just my opinion, but I feel that we should dive into the martial art we have chosen, as deeply as possible, for at least five years (should be longer) before we look into another martial art.

I have read that Masaaki Hatsumi has said that it takes the guy who has done five years of Judo, five years to get all of the Judo out of his system to start at zero, in year six, to learn the new art. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration, but there is a lot of wisdom in the statement.

Charles

Peter Klein 06-04-2003 01:55 PM

thai boxing,aikido,bjj jesus what a mix! you will be very skilled if you mix those arts

paw 06-04-2003 01:55 PM

Quote:

1. Is it necessary to go outside your chosen martial art? (for us, Aikido)
Possibly. Depending upon an individual's goals and the aikido training available to them.
Quote:

2. If yes, when would be a good time to start studying a supplementary martial art?
As soon as the need is recognized, provided the individual is able to do so. I presume "supplementary" indicates a the situation where one person is seeking to improve their performance by focusing on a particular weakness. It just so happens the perceived weakness is best addressed in another art. So, I would suggest starting the other art when the need is recognized, and leaving when the weakness is no longer present.

Regards,

Paul

Charles Hill 06-04-2003 07:48 PM

Paul,

How does one know whether the weakness is in the art being studied or just in one's self?

I heard that the Thai Buddhist teacher Ajaan Chah used to tell the story of the monk who dropped his bag in a pile of shit one day. The monk soon left the temple and went to another temple. Then he left that temple and went to another still carrying the bag. Finally he ended up in the first temple again. The head monk asked him why he moved around so much. The monk answered, "Because every temple I go to, stinks so bad."

Charles

paw 06-05-2003 06:10 AM

Charles,
Quote:

How does one know whether the weakness is in the art being studied or just in one's self?
A couple of responses come to mind.

1. Does it really matter? As long as the weakness is correctly identified and fixed, is it really important where and how it was done?

2. Honesty and Education. There will always be people that claim one art has all the answers. Investigate and explore those claims. Consider the amount of time needed to reach your individual goals and plan accordingly.

Regards,

Paul


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