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-   -   Am I missing something? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3822)

Thor's Hammer 05-06-2003 03:09 PM

Am I missing something?
 
I don't know if I missed something but from my perpective the people on here that say aikido is worthless in a fight have been gipped...

In my AAF dojo we attack a lot faster and more skillfully than anybody on 'the street' would, and we make sure that every step of the way we're as safe as possible from attack. Where is this innefectivenes? I've only done 3 months of classes but already I'm able to neutralize the average bully with a simple kotegaeshi or ikkyo... where are people getting this "ineffective" idea?

Michael Neal 05-06-2003 03:14 PM

I don't think Aikido is ineffective, just the way some people train.

Paul Smith 05-06-2003 03:16 PM

Personally, I think all these discussions belong under the penumbra of "useless."

Any "fight" in a dojo, or boxing ring, is controlled, with defined rules of play.

Unfortunately, the only way to perfect "effectiveness" is in the chaos of the street. In other words, learn to fight by fighting. If this is a goal, I see no other way.

shihonage 05-06-2003 03:27 PM

Bryan, just out of curiosity...

Have you actually neutralized a bully with a kotegaeshi or ikkyo ?

DaveO 05-06-2003 03:27 PM

Re: Am I missing something?
 
Quote:

Bryan Benson (Thor&#039s Hammer) wrote:
I don't know if I missed something but from my perpective the people on here that say aikido is worthless in a fight have been gipped...

In my AAF dojo we attack a lot faster and more skillfully than anybody on 'the street' would, and we make sure that every step of the way we're as safe as possible from attack. Where is this innefectivenes? I've only done 3 months of classes but already I'm able to neutralize the average bully with a simple kotegaeshi or ikkyo... where are people getting this "ineffective" idea?

...by the belief - sponsored by society and media - that aggression is key to success. Aikido is non-aggressive; therefore it cannot be successful. Personally, I find this belief to be in error. Aikido is extremely tactical; used well it can effectively handle any 'street' (note the quotations) situation.

One source of the misconception seems to derive from the fact that Aikido is not seen in MMA tournaments. Again, I personally find this idea odd; since the stated object of Aikido is the successful resolution of conflict in the most efficient and peaceful means possible; not in competition.

There are many as well who don't consider Aikido to be a fighting art at all; that it is a means to self-betterment and relaxation. That's their choice and it's a good one if it makes them happy. I personally find the tactical nature of the art deeply fascinating.

Be that as it may however; I'd offer one note of caution: You stated that "I've only done 3 months of classes but already I'm able to neutralize the average bully with a simple kotegaeshi or ikkyo." Unless you already have substantial experience in other fighting skills; and have successfully used Aikido in a defensive situation; I wouldn't be so quick to declare your abilities. There is no such thing as an 'average' bully and remember; bullies rarely attack singly - they travel in packs. Are your abilities - and your mental preparation - ready to handle a 3-on-1 situation? :) Lol - I'm not preaching; hope I don't sound like I am, just offering a small note of caution - there is a fine line between confidence and over-confidence.

Happy training!

Dave

Jeff R. 05-07-2003 06:45 AM

Re: Am I missing something?
 
Quote:

Bryan Benson (Thor&#039s Hammer) wrote:
I don't know if I missed something but from my perpective the people on here that say aikido is worthless in a fight have been gipped...

In my AAF dojo we attack a lot faster and more skillfully than anybody on 'the street' would, and we make sure that every step of the way we're as safe as possible from attack. Where is this innefectivenes? I've only done 3 months of classes but already I'm able to neutralize the average bully with a simple kotegaeshi or ikkyo... where are people getting this "ineffective" idea?

That's AWESOME that you are finding Aikido to be fun, fascinating, and practical. When you begin, you see a lot of power and magic in the techniques, and you feel unstoppable. As you get older, you begin to question and test the techniques, some people to different degrees than others. Further in training, after several years, you see that the techniques were always effective, but the principles needed to blossom inside of you; your body needed time to develop the nuances of Aikido as second nature, especially against a variety of attacks outside the dojo.

Don't jump the gun with overconfidence, but be confident in where you are. There is always somebody better than each of us, and there are people on the street that will blow your mind with speed, accuracy, and power--especially when it comes to survival. Overestimation of your own skills makes you as vulnerable to what you're not expecting as underestimating the skills of others.

Have fun with training. Experiment.

ian 05-07-2003 09:59 AM

Yep, all situations are different...

Although analysis of our aikido is very useful, and helps to polish technique, no technique is perfect. There are always ways to get out, avoid, counter etc especially when we know what is coming. After the certain 'honeymoon' period in aikido many people loose faith because they say - well I could do this/that/the other. Why didn't they think of that initially? - cos they didn't understand aikido initially.

It is very important not to think uke is like nage. As uke you do a strong, fast attack directly towards nage - the usual similation of a suprise attack esp. from someon who wishes to lay you out in the first blow. As Nage we blend.

Once we confuse these two there is no way but through competition, but when this happens it gets more unrealistic because then when someone does attacks you aggressively in the street and doesn't look for a counter etc they are too fast and too powerful for our 'competitive mind' to do anything about it.

Ian


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