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-   -   Jedi Training (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374)

Elric123 11-07-2000 12:36 AM

OK so I'm probably just being silly here, but check this out.

In my ramblings over the internet, I came accross a few sites reguarding Jedi Knight training. (Dont leave just yet :)..)

It is incredible how much if the Aiki is actually mirrored in their sites. The concept of Ki is a lot more like the "Force" than the Budist chakra. And the martial concepts are very Aikidoesk... Wierd huh!

Perhaps this is one of those culturally driven realities? Much like the oh I don't know.. the space shuttle or satelites.. See Arthur C. Clark, or Robert A. Heinlein, or Isaac Asimov.

Oh, wait a minute, the wife just reminded me that Lucas probably imitated or drew upon Aikido in his portrayal or Jedi in the first place...

Anyways.... Do any of you think in oh 200 years or so their might actually be Jedi Knights? Can modern Aikido help but add to this phenomina?

Are any of you reading this actually "Jedi Knights" and if so would you admit it? Face it ficticious as it might be, its one hell of an ideal isn't it...

Trent

P.S. yes I have been drinking, but just a little...bad day at work what can I say... :)

andrew 11-07-2000 03:46 AM

Quote:

Elric123 wrote:
[BAnyways.... Do any of you think in oh 200 years or so their might actually be Jedi Knights? Can modern Aikido help but add to this phenomina?
[/b]
Yes, you are silly. The Jedi lived a long time AGO.
andrew

Paul 11-07-2000 03:59 AM

.......in a galaxy far far away.


Regards Paul Finn

crystalwizard 11-07-2000 08:05 AM

Quote:

Elric123 wrote:
[B
Anyways.... Do any of you think in oh 200 years or so their might actually be Jedi Knights? Can modern Aikido help but add to this phenomina?

P.S. yes I have been drinking, but just a little...bad day at work what can I say... :) [/b]
That depends entirely on what part of the Jedi Knights you're talking about.

And it would be a lot better for you if you'd go stretch and work out instead of drinking when you've had a bad day at work.

Skyluke81 11-07-2000 08:16 AM

well, let's just say...
 
FEEL THE FORCE, LUKE.

Ehm... guess the reason of my nickname?


Now serious: I never thought about this, but the Jedi's philosophy is kinda similar to Aikido...





Luca

Aiki1 11-07-2000 09:57 AM

Hi - it's a known fact that Lucas both studied Aikido and consciously took a lot from it for the Star Wars movies.

akiy 11-07-2000 10:37 AM

I've heard a rumor that the Yoda character was based off of Iseri sensei in Ventura, California...

-- Jun

Aiki1 11-07-2000 10:49 AM

I've wondered about that, I just kind of figured that O Sensei was in that image somewhere...

crystalwizard 11-07-2000 10:59 AM

Quote:

akiy wrote:
I've heard a rumor that the Yoda character was based off of Iseri sensei in Ventura, California...

-- Jun

Gee I hope not since it's Yoda's fault the Jedi were destroyed

AikiBiker 11-07-2000 12:38 PM

On the subject of Jedi I have an uncle who used to work as a weapons designer for the Navy, he once told me that it was very possible to build a lightsaber. The only problem is the power source, I'm afraid alkalines just aren't gonna cut it.

Just think how that could revolutionize bokken training. Might be fun, if you don't lose an arm.

Later

stratcat 11-07-2000 02:06 PM

Use the Force, Skywalker-san!
 
Aikibiker, I've heard the same thing, except that it would not be a static LASER weapon as lightsabers are, rather it would be a PLASMA field (the stuff stars are made of) held in stasis (as in it doesn't fly all over tha place or explode) by a strong magnetic field that focuses the plasma in a sword shaped matrix.

At present it is almost technologically viable, except for the energy source that has enough power to create the plasma AND power the magnetic field matrix long enough to be of some use. So who knows, maybe someday it might be possible.

Although I've never liked the Jedi's Ken technique, they hold them like baseball bats! Ughh, bad technique! Not Aiki at all.

crystalwizard 11-07-2000 02:49 PM

well if you go read the interviews with lucas, they mixed a lot of different things to get the Jedi style, including Tennis. They weren't interested in a style that would actualy be good to fight with, just look good on camera.

please try to remember that the entire fight was totaly worked out, practiced and planned down to the smallest detail before filming started, which is why it looked good. The moves that were made were for one thing only, special effect on camera. Had darth maul been as good a fighter as he was supposed to be, when Obi Wan flipped over him he should have sliced him in half instead of standing there watching like an idiot

So of course it's bad technique. It's not supposed to be a technique at all.


Dan Hover 11-07-2000 03:29 PM

Lucas was very influenced by Akira Kurosawa the director and took Star Wars from I believe Yojimbo or some other Film that was told from the perspective of minor characters. As Star Wars is seen from the perspective of the droids R2-D2 and C-3PO.

akiy 11-07-2000 03:38 PM

"Star Wars" is basically a remake of the Kurosawa movie "The Hidden Fortress" (or "Kakushi Toride no San Akunin").

-- Jun

Elric123 11-07-2000 05:59 PM

Just for fun..
 
Well that was fun...
Actually, I had one drink and that was the first in about 4 years. I am such a total light weight these days, and based on how my head fealt the next day, stretching and working out would have definately been better.

The Aiki in the Jedi thing I was refering to was more of their philosophy and ideas about the force and universe, rather than technique. Everyone knows that their actual fighting sucks. That I think is what blew the movie for me, especially Eppisode 1, where the Jedi were supposed to be in their prime. What a let down there!

But you have to admit, the concept is compelling. Check out some of the web sites out there, there are tons.

Taking the light side,
Trent

Mike Collins 11-07-2000 06:43 PM

I had just read one of Tohei Sensei's early books when the first Star Wars came out (I think, time has a way of doing funny things to the hazy memories of a misspent youth). That was the "hook" of Star Wars for me. It was so much like this cool stuff I'd read about but wouldn't start actively pursuing for almost twenty years.

If only I'd pursued Aikido instead of the choice I made (door number 2)?!? ;)

tedehara 11-12-2000 02:18 PM

Re: Just for fun..
 
Quote:

Elric123 wrote:
...The Aiki in the Jedi thing I was refering to was more of their philosophy and ideas about the force and universe, rather than technique...
Trent

To see how Lucas arrived at his concept of the Force, take a look at the essay "Ki in StarWars" at
http://www.geocities.com/tokyo/ginza...say.html#swars

Quote:

Dale Pollock wrote:
[/i]In Skywalking: The Life and Films of George Lucas, Dale Pollock wrote that "Lucas's concept of the force was heavily influenced by Carlos Castaneda's Tales of Power, an account of a Mexican Indian sorcerer, Don Juan, who uses the phrase 'life force'."3

However, Lucas said that he had read extensively on myth and mythology theory,"...as many as fifty books. I basically worked out a general theory for the Force, and then I played with it."4

If you want to find out about the Force, why not get it directly from Yoda himself?

See "A Way to the Force" by Yoda of Dagobah at:
http://www.quantumlight.com/theforce.../the_force.htm

These and other things about Ki/Qi/Chi/the Force/Energy can be found at http://www.geocities.com/tedehara
in the story/storiesII and article/archives sections.

[Edited by tedehara on November 12, 2000 at 10:09pm]

Niadh 11-12-2000 04:50 PM

Actually it is an Idea I pursed ( at least intelectually) soon after I started to pracitce Aikido in 1986. As you have stated some of the ideals are similar. An I find that meditating while breathing can in deed enhacne ones awareness of ones surrounds, body etc. Unfortunately this is not something I have successfully practiced in a while. Oh well, my 2 cents.
Neil

Elric123 11-13-2000 12:34 AM

A for the class.
 
WOW!

No one can say that Aikidoka aren't well read.

I think Ted gets a special "Gold Star" for the best research.

Thanks for all the great links, I know I will enjoy them.

May the Ki be with you,

Trent

ian 11-13-2000 03:12 AM

I've always been on and off about the reality of ki. When I first started aikido I believed in it and used to imagine it during my practise - which benefited me alot. Then I decided that it was just a way in which it was easiest to get the best mechanical advantage, without actually having to think of the mechanics. However after more recent experiences and discussions with a chinese boxer I have come full circle and I now believe in it fully again.

However, although Star Wars 1 gave me shivers down my spine because of the relationship with concepts of 'ki' I think there is also a pantheist agenda there. Also, it is talked about on more orgasmic terms (don't they consider it as a symbiosis between bacteria and jedi knights?). My view of chi is very different - though unfortunately I find it too hard to explain why without getting too metaphysical and boring.

Also, I would like to see more blending in the light-sabre fighting: so if you're out there George...


Ian

crystalwizard 11-13-2000 04:09 AM

Quote:

ian wrote:
Also, it is talked about on more orgasmic terms (don't they consider it as a symbiosis between bacteria and jedi knights?).
Actualy in an interview after the movie George Lucas stated that the word midiclorins was a play on mitochondria not bacteria.

Pete 11-13-2000 05:05 AM

Quote:

crystalwizard wrote:
Quote:

akiy wrote:
I've heard a rumor that the Yoda character was based off of Iseri sensei in Ventura, California...

-- Jun

Gee I hope not since it's Yoda's fault the Jedi were destroyed

OK, I have been a SW fan since I first saw the film on it's first outing in 1977 - I was 6.

How was Yoda supposed to be responsible for the destruction of the Jedi?

Please tell me!!


crystalwizard 11-13-2000 05:27 AM

Quote:

Pete wrote:

How was Yoda supposed to be responsible for the destruction of the Jedi?

(i'm attempting to write this without including any spoilers..which isn't overly easy)

Ok..Yoda's big thing is fear. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Yoda is so afraid of that himself that he refuses to train Aniken because he senses fear in him. In several places through the phantom menance and specificaly in the final scene between yoda and obi wan he states he is afraid of what training aniken will cause.

Aniken remember is a young kid at this time, who's mother is a long way away, who knows nothing of greed and who is basicaly a white page of paper that will be shaped by events he has to live through. A young kid who's only real worry is of losing his mother, something which is a pretty normal fear for any kid.

Instead of the Jedi masters training aniken and giving him a sense of family, security and love which would have shaped him to be a loyal Jedi knight, they push him away. Remeber he is listening when they tell Qui Gon not to train him, he's perceptive enough to feel that he's a problem to these people.

By pushing him away, making him feel like an outcast and a problem, not providing him with friendship he can turn to when it becomes necessary..because of his own fear...Yoda sows the seeds for Aniken being won over by the Emperor down the road and joining with him.

Remember Obi Wan telling Luke that Darth Vader helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi which is a pretty personal vendetta. There is even a rumor that in order to win aniken over, Palpatine will have his mother killed then make him belive that the Jedi masters were somehow responsible, portraying himself as the good guy and them as the bad....time will tell on that one.

Yoda's still hung up on fear by the time he meets Luke but fortunately Luke is older than Aniken and the Emperor older. less crafty and more openly evil, so Luke doesn't wind up suduced too (though it is close).




[Edited by crystalwizard on November 13, 2000 at 05:32am]

Pete 11-13-2000 07:09 AM

Thanks for that Kelly!!

I admit I hadn't gone that deep with the connection!! I thought perhaps there was something obvious I had missed in all the books etc!!

Makes sense to me now!!

Thanks again!!



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