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-   -   weapons? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367)

shadow 11-03-2000 07:47 PM

I know that the bokken, jo and possibly at more advanced stages the tanto are all fundamental parts of aikido training. I'm just wondering if there are any other weapons anyone trains in to developm concentration, or any other reasons. I'm really interested in learning to use the japanese bow.......and I'd just like to know what else everyone does aswell as aikido.

thank you

peace

damien

shadow 11-05-2000 05:50 PM

is my posting too silly to get an answer? hehe

TheProdigy 11-05-2000 08:14 PM

Hey, I'm very new to aikido myself and its my 1st martial art. Personally tho, my fav is the jo. Been practicin the jo kata for several weeks now. Been practicin aikido 3mths now. Gotta love it.


AikidoSteve 11-06-2000 12:53 AM

I've had the opportunity to go to several seminars and visit with quite a number of Dojos and have a fair aikido library, and all I have ever seen or come up with is Boken, Tanto, Jo and Bo.

As far as development of concentration, from somewhat an occidental point of view, I personally find firearm competition one of the most challenging. One is outside, its dusty, its too cold or too hot, as the wind blows your body will move. Points make a difference, and there is a time limit - you're trying to put an item as thick as a bic pen and maybe an inch or so long 600 meters down range into a what looks like a small black dot no bigger than the smiley face icon :circle:used on this forum site. Or taking something the size of a pencil eraser and try to hit small metal targets, 10 each at 25, 50, 75 & 100 meters. Or hitting clay disks thrown at various speeds and angles within seconds of the start of their flight. One has to have no thought, an empty mind - Mu Shin - your Ki is flowing, there is a certain Zen feeling in place. No dusty, hot/cold, windy how did I do on my last shot, how did everyone else do on theirs, etc thoughts. One has to control their breathing and pull the trigger between heartbeats. And every time one pulls the trigger, it's a surprise, there is no anticipation otherwise one will compensate and flinch causing the barrel to move. That to me, is concentration.

I know there is bad press lately concerning firearms from the PC crowd, but none of mine have ever committed a crime. And over 60 Million US gun owners have never committed a crime with theirs. I've digressed please forgive me. Anyway, if you have the opportunity I highly recommend it. It's not as easy as it looks.

However, if your search leads you to Kyudo, Kendo, Jojutsu or Bojutsu then good luck. Just remember there are other less physical arts like the Way of the Brush - Shodo. Everything about shooting sports can be said about Shodo. There is no anticipation, no hesitancy, breathing is controlled, no thought, an empty mind, Ki is flowing and best yet :rolleyes: the PC crowd has not found out that the finest brushes are made from mouse whiskers yet, so it falls into the correct category ;).

Yours in Aikihood
Steve Nelson

ian 11-06-2000 07:53 AM

Strangely enough I started Aikido because of the jo work, but I now use all my weapons work as aids to developing my unarmed aikido technique.

To me the boken strengthens the hip movement and extension, and teaches you to keep your hands in your centre. It also helps you to move off centre line whilst striking or using your hip. With a partner it is very useful for developing blending.

The jo helps you to co-ordinate complex hand & arm movements whilst turning and moving and, for me, develops zanshin (awareness) and fluidity. When you are using the jo to throw someone, it develops extension (and also gives you an idea of the mechanics of circular movement).

I've only ever used the tanto as an uke - and therefore in a disarming context. All the weapons are useful in this way to get an idea of miai (fighting distance).

Although I like the weapon work, and practise regularly (about 2/3 times a week) I don't think there is enough in Aikido to consider the weapons as a distinct aspect of the martial art. I doubt if I could face anyone who has done kendo or iado for even a short time, and win (without reverting to unarmed techniques!)

You ask if there are any other weapons we have used. Occasionally we used to have a 'bring a weapon' evening - so you could get used to adapting your defensive technique from such things as base-ball bats, iron bars and rolling pins.

ian 11-06-2000 07:59 AM

P.S. for me ukemis have similar practise benefits to weapons. Although the floor is not a conventional weapon, ukemis help me to develop extension, zanshin, hip and body movement, balance and also develops the muscles necessary to keep standing up during much of aikido practise!

JJF 11-07-2000 02:10 AM

The style of Aikido I practice (Shoji Nishio Shihan style) is closely related to both jo and bokken. We do most of the basic techniques with a jo in the hand to develop the right feeling of cutting with the hand. We also do them as ken-tai-ken (sword vs. sword) and ken-tak-jo (sword vs. 'stick') - a bit like two-person kata's and then we do some basic tachniqes with the jo as well. All this is to underline the fact that Aikido is developed from the sword (at least some aspects of it :))

In addition to this we are encouraged to practice a form of Iaido developed by Nishio sensei himself called Aiki-toho. Originally it was recogniced as a Iaido-style, but due to a disagreement with the Iaido-federation it is now concidered a whole new budo in itself. The purpose of Aiki-toho is to develop the right body posture and the right feeling inside the body when doing the techniques.

Finally a comment to Steve Nelsons post:
Quote:

akiy wrote:
However, if your search leads you to Kyudo, Kendo, Jojutsu or Bojutsu then good luck
I can only second this, but since I have had some experience with Kendo I would like to add that one should be concider it very carefully before taking up this art as a supplement to Aikido. It is a very different mental attitude that one develop and I have had a lot of problems 'de-learning' some of the things that I've picked up in Kendo.

All the best

aikikid 11-11-2000 04:00 PM

My two cents...
 
Kyudo is very cool, but it's hard to locate, unless you live in, say, Japan, New York, or southern Cali. Another really neat, really obscure weapon art is naginata (a cross between a spear and sword) training (naginatado?). And you get to wear hakama (joy!)! The funny thing about my town is that we have naginata, but not iaido or kendo or jodo. Tallahassee does, however, have about 205 tae kwon do dojos.....

shadow 11-11-2000 11:45 PM

Re: My two cents...
 
Quote:

aikikid wrote:
Kyudo is very cool, but it's hard to locate, unless you live in, say, Japan, New York, or southern Cali. Another really neat, really obscure weapon art is naginata (a cross between a spear and sword) training (naginatado?). And you get to wear hakama (joy!)! The funny thing about my town is that we have naginata, but not iaido or kendo or jodo. Tallahassee does, however, have about 205 tae kwon do dojos.....
Kyudo is what I would really love to learn as an accompianment to aikido. I am hopefully spending a month or two in japan next year, know anywhere I might be able to go have a look into it? As I live in australia, I don't think I'm going to find somewhere that teaches it unfortunately........but I am young and it is a future thing that I want to learn.

shadow 11-11-2000 11:46 PM

Re: My two cents...
 
Quote:

aikikid wrote:
Kyudo is very cool, but it's hard to locate, unless you live in, say, Japan, New York, or southern Cali. Another really neat, really obscure weapon art is naginata (a cross between a spear and sword) training (naginatado?). And you get to wear hakama (joy!)! The funny thing about my town is that we have naginata, but not iaido or kendo or jodo. Tallahassee does, however, have about 205 tae kwon do dojos.....
Kyudo is what I would really love to learn as an accompianment to aikido. I am hopefully spending a month or two in japan next year, know anywhere I might be able to go have a look into it? As I live in australia, I don't think I'm going to find somewhere that teaches it unfortunately........but I am young and it is a future thing that I want to learn.
Anyone out there study kyudo???

Nick 11-12-2000 06:20 AM

Re: My two cents...
 
Quote:

aikikid wrote:
Kyudo is very cool, but it's hard to locate, unless you live in, say, Japan, New York, or southern Cali. Another really neat, really obscure weapon art is naginata (a cross between a spear and sword) training (naginatado?). And you get to wear hakama (joy!)! The funny thing about my town is that we have naginata, but not iaido or kendo or jodo. Tallahassee does, however, have about 205 tae kwon do dojos.....
The US Kyudo Renmei has dojos in quite a few places. I'll look for their webpage. Remember that it can be quite expensive (a good bow goes for $500 or $600 plus special kimono and hakama), though it is very beautiful.

It would probably be called naginata-jutsu, though I'm not sure. The naginata was the weapon that many samuria women learned to defend their houses if necessary. I believe it's still taught to some women in Japan.

kendo is rare, iaido is almost non-existant, and jodo is unheardof here. We do have a shinkendo dojo though... that's something worth looking into also, IMO.

We probably have more McDojos than thou... if that specifies a sign that glares "KARATE" and in the window you see "(such and such's) Tae Kwon Do."

Oh well... look for the good, try to tell others about the bad, and leave them to their fate.

Peace,

Nick

aikikid 11-12-2000 07:39 PM

According to some webpages, the naginata was generally used by non-mounted samurai (ashigaru, or peasant-soldiers, more often used yari, the spear). Of course, the sasmurai also wore the two swords. Women were also samurai. They were expected to manage the household, and defend it as necessary. Women were primarily instructed in tanto use, but were also taught the sword and naginata. The naginata was also ideal for castle defense.
And now you know!:)

Niadh 11-22-2000 03:24 PM

I know that a the primary martial arts instructor at Hampshire College, in MA, USA was just starting to teach kyudo in my final years at that school. He is an excellent MA and might be helpful in your search for a place to study. The down side is that the only suggestion I have for reaching him is the Hampshire College website. His name is Marion Taylor.
http://www.hampshire.edu/localhome.shtml

Neil

cguzik 11-25-2000 02:11 PM

Kyudo is an excellent practice for training coordination of mind, body, and breath.

A good resource for information is The Kyudo Project:

http://www.netwizards.net/~eclay/

Chris Guzik



Susan McCaffrey 03-18-2001 12:03 PM

Zenko Kyudo web site
 
The new web site for Kyudo as presented by Kanjuro Shibata, Sensei (in whose lineage Marion Taylor practices) is an excellent source of contact information, as well as a good taste of the style of the way Sensei teaches Kyudo Meditation Archery.

It's at
http://www.zenko.org

Susan McCaffrey

Quote:

Niadh wrote:
I know that a the primary martial arts instructor at Hampshire College, in MA, USA was just starting to teach kyudo in my final years at that school. He is an excellent MA and might be helpful in your search for a place to study. The down side is that the only suggestion I have for reaching him is the Hampshire College website. His name is Marion Taylor.
http://www.hampshire.edu/localhome.shtml

Neil


Matt Banks 03-18-2001 12:30 PM

hi
 
HI,

I used to train in kendo, and I did find that I had to de-learn some of the postures, as it affected my aikido. For instance the fact that in kendo you always have to keep you back heel up posed large problems.

Ive heard of yari used in certain aikido clubs. Id love to learn yarijutsu and naginatajutsu, it looks so gracefull. I saw a kyudo demonstration on Eurosport, and it blew my mind. They were hitting targets while moving on horseback and blindfolded. It looked incredible.


Matt Banks


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