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timcraig 02-21-2003 10:41 PM

Way of the Warrior on Discovery
 
Did anyone see "The way of the warrior" on discovery channel tonight? It made me sad to hear someone say that aikido was the art the samurai used. The name aikido wasn't used until 1942....

Dirty Dogi 02-22-2003 12:53 AM

Yeah I watched it. I was glad they finsihed off with aikido. That sensei kind of evened out all the killing and neck breaking styles.

I thought they were talking about Idiao(sp?) at first as the samauri style, then they went into aikido as a "counter" for the samurai style.

He had some good technique too, but one of his ukes seemed to be trying a little to hard for the Tv cameras.

Kelly Allen 02-22-2003 01:48 AM

I'm not sure if this was the same one, but I saw a program recently on the top ten martial arts. About half the arts were misrepresented in some way. When Aikido came up as number five there was more Iaido than Aikido. They too depicted it as the art of the Samuri

Mel Barker 02-22-2003 10:07 AM

Re: Way of the Warrior on Discovery
 
Quote:

Tim Craig (timcraig) wrote:
It made me sad to hear someone say that aikido was the art the samurai used.

Why did it make you sad?

Mel

timcraig 02-22-2003 12:36 PM

Because Aikido didn't really come into being until 1942, when O-sensei named it.

Sure, you could use the a square is a rhombus argument (that aikido is jujitsu), but I think it's a little misleading to say that the samurai actually used aikido. Misleading people makes aikido as a whole look bad.

Mel Barker 02-22-2003 03:51 PM

Quote:

Tim Craig (timcraig) wrote:
Because Aikido didn't really come into being until 1942, when O-sensei named it.

Does that mean Ueshiba's pre-war students are still doing Daito-ryu?

Mel

JimAde 02-23-2003 09:02 AM

Re: Way of the Warrior on Discovery
 
Quote:

Tim Craig (timcraig) wrote:
Did anyone see "The way of the warrior" on discovery channel tonight? It made me sad to hear someone say that aikido was the art the samurai used. The name aikido wasn't used until 1942....

I was watching this by myself and nearly burst a blood vessel when I didn't have anyone to vent at :)

I don't expect a show like this to go in-depth on a martial art's history, but they should at least get the facts they do use right. If they had spent ten minutes looking on the web they could have been more accurate.

I enjoy a lot of Discovery channel programming, but they don't seem to have much journalistic/scientific integrity.

timcraig 02-23-2003 11:58 AM

Quote:

Mel Barker wrote:
Does that mean Ueshiba's pre-war students are still doing Daito-ryu?

If they were taught the same things he taught after the war, then I would say they were doing "aikibudo" and "aikinomichi"(what he called aikido before he decided on the name "aikido"-from aikidofaq) if they continued to train after the war, then they were doing aikido. But that's just IMHO. There's still no chance the samurai were doing aikido.

Josh Mason 02-24-2003 12:33 AM

I liked the Discovery channel's segment about Aikido. Sure, it was inaccurate in some things but really, how many times do you get to see something about Aikido on television? I was completely thrilled.

I was like "LOOK MOM AND DAD! That's AIKIDO! YEAH! That's some of the same stuff WE DO! Look at that IRIMINAGE! OOOH OOOH... THERE'S SHIHONAGE!!! YEAH ALRIGHT MAN!"

Kevin Masters 02-24-2003 09:45 AM

Quote:

Josh Mason wrote:
I liked the Discovery channel's segment about Aikido. Sure, it was inaccurate in some things but really, how many times do you get to see something about Aikido on television? I was completely thrilled.

I was like "LOOK MOM AND DAD! That's AIKIDO! YEAH! That's some of the same stuff WE DO! Look at that IRIMINAGE! OOOH OOOH... THERE'S SHIHONAGE!!! YEAH ALRIGHT MAN!"

Me too!:D

Of course it was sensationalised because it was on Teevee. How many Aikido Dojos are actually built to replicate Shogun period palaces? And one of the Uke's almost crashed into the water cooler. Ow.

It was a nice change after seeing the guys punching that lady in the throat. CombatKi seems more like a college drinking game than a martial art to me. LOL

Isn't that how Houdini died?

Kev.

ian 02-24-2003 12:46 PM

I think part of the allure of martial arts to newbies is this ancient mystical knowledge thing and any relation to the samurai. At a pub quiz once 'aikido' was the answer to the question; which ancient japanese martial art uses the attackers own energy against them?

I've just got to the stage now when I just nod and say yeh, its an ancient martial art using mystical powers handed down from the gods and you can kill a crowd of people without even touching them, or even having to think about it.

Josh Mason 02-24-2003 01:10 PM

Combat Ki is retarded.....

"Alright bad guy.... I'm gonna stand here and let you punch me repeatedly in the neck."

With Aikido you don't have to worry about getting hit.

JimAde 02-24-2003 01:41 PM

Juko Kai
 
Quote:

Josh Mason wrote:
Combat Ki is retarded.....

"Alright bad guy.... I'm gonna stand here and let you punch me repeatedly in the neck."

With Aikido you don't have to worry about getting hit.

For extensive discussion on Rod Sacharnoski and his group/art, go over to http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/index.php and search the forums for either Rod Sacharnoski, Combat Ki or Juko-kai. Bring a cup of coffee; there's a lot to read. :freaky:

John Boswell 02-24-2003 02:18 PM

I saw both the "Top Ten" show on The Learning Channel and this one on Discovery Channel. Both were disappointing to me, but were good enough to get a general idea out there to the layman.

As for this particular show, I'd like to mention how so many people love to ask the question "Is Aikido combat practicle?" all the time and then you look at CombatKi and see these guys psyching themselves up to take a punch. Now, I ask you: which is more practicle??

As for the 6th Dan who demonstrated Aikido in this show, though he was very good at what he did... he used his center and ki so well he hardly touched the Uke and thus made it look WAY too easy and effortless and "fake". It should have been emphasised even more how much training he had to undergo to get where he is today.

Oh well, any attention Aikido gets is attention on "Us" and off of other MA's. I really think Aikido is headed into a new age. Really.

Steven 02-24-2003 05:53 PM

If this is the same program I saw, with Kensho Furuya, I was very disappointed with the way Aikido was portrayed. No offense to Kensho Furuya or his students, but their portion was awful. Beautiful dojo though.

I could name at least a dozen other Aikido instructors in Southern California that could have done a better job. He was out of breath, sweating a lot after very little movement and like John said, looked "WAY" too fake.

My wife, who has seen been watching me for over 17 years, even stated that if she had never seen Aikido before, she would never consider it after seeing that demonstration.

btw: Here's their URL

http://www.aikidocenterla.com/

twilliams423 02-25-2003 11:42 AM

Way of the Warrior
 
Since I was a participant in this segment as well as having been involved in several other filmings at ACLA, I thought I'd contribute my perspective.

First of all, yes it is a beautiful dojo. Probably this is one of the reasons these kind of shows want to film here. But beyond the look of the place, there is some serious training going on too.

If Sensei looked out of breath or was sweating, I wouldn't be suprised. Although the segment was only a few minutes in length in its final version, the filming lasted for a couple of hours at least! I know I was sweating. In fact, we sweat and breathe hard in every class. Don't most of the rest of you?

Also, his uke is 4th Dan (now 5th dan), and I can assure you that he gives 110% in his attacks all the time, not just for the cameras. He is fast, strong and very good. Sensei demands this of all us. There is no faking it. If it looks too easy for Sensei, think about what that really means. I was there, there was no theatrical enhancement. This is the way we train.

As for there being at least a dozen better instructors in So. Cal. I don't know, maybe. I find that statement pretty hard to accept. I've been training in the LA area for 15 years. I know there are some good instructors around, but.... I'm a teacher myself, I certainly wouldn't put myself in that category.

These kinds of programs are created for the general public's consumption. They almost always come out about the same. They're a form of entertainment. They certainly aren't meant to be a serious treatment of martial arts. The people who produce them and write the narrations have no knowledge of the subject. They serve up what they think will sell.

The Dojo participates as a service to help spread awareness of traditional Aikido training. People are stimulated by the programs to check out the art. So to that extent, they serve some positive function.

Sincerely,

Tom Williams

Kent Enfield 02-25-2003 12:55 PM

Re: Way of the Warrior
 
Quote:

Tom Williams (twilliams423) wrote:
Since I was a participant in this segment as well as having been involved in several other filmings at ACLA, I thought I'd contribute my perspective.

Then you might be able to answer a question I have. Where is Furuya sensei's iaido rank from? Nowhere on the dojo's website does it say.

And why do the chuden waza as two-person exercises? If you want to do two-person forms, just do the two-person forms (tachiuchi no kurai, tsumiiai no kurai, etc.).

twilliams423 02-25-2003 01:48 PM

Kent,

Sorry I can't help out with your questions. I don't practice Iaido and don't know enough about it.

Tom

Thorin 02-25-2003 03:57 PM

Thanks Tom for your great letter. I enjoyed the tv show (understanding that it was edited by the show and made for the general public). You have a very nice dojo and a dedicated Sensei.

JimAde 02-26-2003 08:48 AM

Re: Way of the Warrior
 
Quote:

Tom Williams (twilliams423) wrote:
These kinds of programs are created for the general public's consumption. They almost always come out about the same. They're a form of entertainment. They certainly aren't meant to be a serious treatment of martial arts. The people who produce them and write the narrations have no knowledge of the subject. They serve up what they think will sell.

<rant>

This, in fact, is my exact beef with the Discovery channel (not Furuya sensei or his school). They purport to be producing documentaries and scientific programming. If they can be so far wrong about the basic history of Aikido (which is readily available) then how can I believe anything they say? :grr:

</rant>

Ok. I'm done now. I feel much better. :)

Kelly Allen 02-27-2003 01:09 AM

You know what they should have is a martial arts channel. Or a week long series on martial arts. There are so many of them out there, And lots are so unique, that an hour long show could be produced for each art. I'd watch!

Bronson 02-27-2003 02:07 PM

Quote:

You know what they should have is a martial arts channel.
You know I swear I read in some magazine somewhere that this very thing is going to offered by some cable tv providers. Anyone else heard anything?

Bronson

SmilingNage 02-28-2003 12:19 AM

I was wondering where sensei Kensho Furuya got his rank from. I dont see him listed in IAF. So I was wondering where and who bestowed his rank upon him.

Anyone know?

Kelly Allen 02-28-2003 12:50 AM

Quote:

Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
You know I swear I read in some magazine somewhere that this very thing is going to offered by some cable tv providers. Anyone else heard anything?

Bronson

After I posted I found this at http://www.martialway.com/. I hope my cable provider offers it.

Dave Dean 03-04-2003 11:46 AM

I have to say that, as questionable as Discovery Channel stuff can be (don't get me started on their Egyptology programs!) -- seeing that segment is one of the catalysts that pushed me toward getting started.

My roommate started last September and has been very enthusiastic -- but you have to *see* Aikido, nobody can *describe* it for you. I had this idea that it was "like Judo" but with more mumbo-jumbo. I was picturing tons of breakfall practice, grappling, getting leverage, etc. like the YMCA Judo classes I took as a kid. Which just isn't very interesting to me anymore. I don't want to *struggle* with people, that's too much like my job. :)

Getting to actually see Aikido sparked my interest enough to watch one of my roommate's classes, which really helped me see what it is that makes Aikido special. As a result, I'm starting with the next beginners' group in April :)

So it's sort of that "any publicity is good publicity" thing.

Besides, after that segment on "Combat Ki", Aikido looked very, very good :D


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