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-   -   Steven Seagal and Aikido, your thoughts (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3236)

john2226 01-09-2003 09:17 PM

Steven Seagal and Aikido, your thoughts
 
First off yes im a Seagal fan:p That being said. I hear many people say his Aikido isnt "real". What do they mean by this?I know the Aikido he does in movies is not the Aikido we do. He seems to improvise and have almost his own style. Last I heard he was 7th Degree Dan. That is a very high rank. I think that deserves some respect. How many of us will attain that rank. I have also heard he is one of the highest ranked Westerners in Aikido. Is this true? Why do people say he is not an Aikidoka? Is it just personal opinion? Thanks for you're thoughts.

MikeE 01-09-2003 11:22 PM

I have been on the mat with Seagal Sensei, and taken ukemi from him.

What he does is very much real. One of his influences (and the person that recommended him for nanadan) is Isoyama Hiroshi Shihan who is know for is powerful technique.

Seagal Sensei is real.

I still wish Isoyama Shihan would have made it to the Aiki-Expo. I would love to take ukemi for him, or at least watched.

Ta Kung 01-10-2003 01:12 AM

I don't know about his Aikido, but his acting sure does suck. Sorry, I couldn't resist... :)

/Patrik

Edward 01-10-2003 01:47 AM

Well, he has never been nominated for an oscar, but I don't think he's any better or worse than other MA actors, past and present, such as Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, Jet Lee, Jackie Chan, or even Arnold Schwarzenegger. They all have one thing in common: their acting sucks!

I have no doubt however that his aikido must be very good.

paul keessen 01-10-2003 02:42 AM

His acting sucks indeed.

And for an aikidoka is talks very dirty!

Ofcourse his aikido looks very nice, but we should all remeber the true meaning of aikido!

greetz

paul

PeterR 01-10-2003 03:13 AM

And that is?
Quote:

paul keessen wrote:
Ofcourse his aikido looks very nice, but we should all remeber the true meaning of aikido!


peteswann 01-10-2003 04:55 AM

[quote="paul keessen"]And for an aikidoka is talks very dirty!/QUOTE]

Could you explain this please? Am unsure what you mean by it!! :D

Pete

Ta Kung 01-10-2003 05:45 AM

Maybe he said wiener a few times more then he should have? :)

/Patrik

PS. My little cousin (5 years old) said that his ponytail is to tight, and he wairs it that way because it makes his eyes look like he was from China... strange girl, she is. :)

Tim Harley 01-10-2003 06:20 AM

"or even Arnold Schwarzenegger. They all have one thing in common: their acting sucks!"

Oh, you just broke my heart! Arnold is one of my all-time favs! OK, I must admit, he isn't the greatest actor, but I love the flicks!

:D

Anyway, from what I understand, Steven Seagal's Aikido is real. Last I was aware of, he operates two schools, one in CA and the other in Japan. And those who have had the opportunity to train with him (as has been stated) can tell you that he knows what he is doing.

We need to be careful in judging someone's ability by what Hollywood portrays.

Peace.

peteswann 01-10-2003 07:49 AM

[quote="Tim HarleyWe need to be careful in judging someone's ability by what Hollywood portrays.[/QUOTE]
Well said!! Although I remember seeing a web site that had a write up of a Seminar conducted by Seagal Sensei in France (IIRC) and it was all a bit pants according to this person!!

Seagal was late arriving, rambled for ages about spiritual stuff whilst on the stage wearing one of his shiny spangly jackets and showed them almost no Aikido at all!!

That said, it still doesn't mean his Aikido isn't any good, just that his ego AT THAT TIME must have been colossal to think that was what people wanted!!

There is talk in the media of another court case involving Seagal and the 'mob' - where he has gone to court over them using threats and extortion on him. Some would say that oh, he knows Aikido etc why doesn't he just do what he does in his films etc? Hell, I think he is doing the right thing by not getting in to that type of confrontation with them!! Surely avoiding the conflict is more Aiki...

:D :D :D

Aikilove 01-10-2003 09:02 AM

Quote:

What he does is very much real. One of his influences (and the person that recommended him for nanadan) is Isoyama Hiroshi Shihan who is know for is powerful technique.

Seagal Sensei is real.

I still wish Isoyama Shihan would have made it to the Aiki-Expo. I would love to take ukemi for him, or at least watched.
Isoyama is a great teacher and a good man, and if he thinks highly of Seagal sensei as a person and as an aikidoka then I think he has a reason fo it.

On a more personal note, I happen to have a contact with Seagal sensei, and I think he's a great man.

diesel 01-10-2003 09:17 AM

Quote:

Pete Swann (peteswann) wrote:
Seagal was late arriving, rambled for ages about spiritual stuff whilst on the stage wearing one of his shiny spangly jackets and showed them almost no Aikido at all!!

You also need to take into account that Seagal sensei is very high in the buddhist community. He is recognized as some reincarnated llama. Therefor spirituality means alot to him, quite possibly more then his aikido...

Eric

peteswann 01-10-2003 09:35 AM

It may well be, however I believe (from what I remember reading!) that he was there for an Aikido seminar rather than a Buddhist retreat!! :D

That said, I don't have any problem with him at all!! I kinda like his films and can separate that from 'realtiy'!! Unless I actually get to meet the guy I will reserve judgement in that respect! He must have had a modicum of talent in Aikido for his teachers to give him his grade, AND allow him to run the Family (of his 1st wife I think) dojo!!

Love him or hate him I can't believe someone can get to where he is on BS alone!!

I'd quite like to see proper video of him demonstrating technique rather than film clips!! :D

Tim Harley 01-10-2003 09:37 AM

[/quote]
Surely avoiding the conflict is more Aiki...

:D :D :D[/quote]
That sure is easy to lose sight of, isn't it?!

;)

Peace.

Jeff Tibbetts 01-10-2003 09:41 AM

Hmmİİİ I wasn't going to get into this thread, but now that Buddhism is brought into it I can't help itİ I've heard that he is a devout Buddhist as well, which is fineİ I heard that he also makes a point to wear his Buddhist prayer beads in all of his movies, also greatİ The one thing I have a hard time reconciling is that one of the prime t goals of Buddhism is to extinguish the EGO, the selfİ I'm sorry, but everything I hear about Seagal-san is that he thinks very much of himselfİ His ego would seem to me and many others to be a great hindrance to accepting his Spirituality as trueİ If this isn't true, I think that it is careless of him to have let his public image reflect that, and in all honesty I don't see how it would reflect that on such a scale as it does if there were no truth to itİ Anyone who comes off as macho and self-centered as he does has to then fight a battle to show people how Spiritual he is, and it doesn't help if he's wearing some "shiny spangly jacket" while he's talkingİ Of course, I think the issue is more with what he projects in the media and through his own actions than what he really thinks, how could anyone know that unless they knew himİ As for his Aikido, I just wish he'd use it in his movies, that's allİ I for one am sick of people asking wether I can do all that stuff that he does in the movies :¤

peteswann 01-10-2003 09:55 AM

Just side tracking away from the subject a little (not much honest!!) check out www.tantobeak.com and the cartoon stories in their gallery!! (Start at the beginning!!)

diesel 01-10-2003 09:55 AM

Quote:

Jeff Tibbetts wrote:
Hmmİİİ I wasn't going to get into this thread, but now that Buddhism is brought into it I can't help itİ I've heard that he is a devout Buddhist as well, which is fineİ I heard that he also makes a point to wear his Buddhist prayer beads in all of his movies, also greatİ The one thing I have a hard time reconciling is that one of the prime t goals of Buddhism is to extinguish the EGO, the selfİ I'm sorry, but everything I hear about Seagal-san is that he thinks very much of himselfİ His ego would seem to me and many others to be a great hindrance to accepting his Spirituality as trueİ If this isn't true, I think that it is careless of him to have let his public image reflect that, and in all honesty I don't see how it would reflect that on such a scale as it does if there were no truth to itİ Anyone who comes off as macho and self-centered as he does has to then fight a battle to show people how Spiritual he is, and it doesn't help if he's wearing some "shiny spangly jacket" while he's talkingİ Of course, I think the issue is more with what he projects in the media and through his own actions than what he really thinks, how could anyone know that unless they knew himİ As for his Aikido, I just wish he'd use it in his movies, that's allİ I for one am sick of people asking wether I can do all that stuff that he does in the movies :¤

Since you want to delve into the topic of buddhism.

The Buddhist doctrine of egolessness is what I think you are referring to. Alot of westerners confuse buddhist ego with what is commonly referred to as the Fruedian ego. The Buddhist ego is a collection of mental events classified into five categories, called skandhas...roughly: confusion, identification, exploration, perception, and finally consciousness.

Now aikido and ego is a completely different topic.

As for aikido in his movies... From my understanding he is no longer allowed to use his students as uke's and stuntment just cannot take ukemi for him ( if you watch above the law and his earlier movies, nice aikido). Therefore he has to resort to moviedo.

:circle: :square: :triangle:

Eric

Choku Tsuki 01-10-2003 11:02 AM

Reality Check
 
Steven Seagal is just a person who:
  • has generated a lot of interest in aikido as a public figure;
  • is not a good role model; but from what I have read he is trying to change this perception of him;
  • will never win an Oscar, but I think he tries very hard to be a good actor;
  • has technique that looks to be very strong.

All around, there is a lot to be learned from him.

--Chuck

john2226 01-10-2003 11:30 AM

thanks for all the replies. Interesting viewpoints from everyone here.

Don_Modesto 01-10-2003 11:51 AM

[quote="Pete Swann (peteswannThere is talk in the media of another court case involving Seagal and the 'mob' - where he has gone to court over them using threats and extortion on him.[/QUOTE]More interesting to me is the talk of HIS threats. It seems that some of his people have attempted to intimidate reporters using threats and vandalism.

norman telford 01-10-2003 11:55 AM

hi people has anyone seen his training video PATH BEYOND THOUGHT he isnt acting in that you cant judge seagals aikido by what you see in his movies(its seeing these movies that got me into a dojo in the first place so i owe him a very large thank you) movies arent real the aikido is more like dance as its all choreographed get hold of the prieviously mentioned training video and then say is is not worthy its worth watching for the dan grade test (by his students) alone truly awsome p.s. i agree his acting is a bit dodgy but why to people go to see his movies for the acting or the aikido :)

Philippe(Schpk) 01-10-2003 12:48 PM

Quote:

Pete Swann (peteswann) wrote:
Although I remember seeing a web site that had a write up of a Seminar conducted by Seagal Sensei in France (IIRC) and it was all a bit pants according to this person!!

This one? http://perso.wanadoo.fr/a.a.d/

(you need to understand french, of course).

I was there in June 1999...

peteswann 01-13-2003 01:42 AM

Not sure Philippe!! The account of it I read was in English!! My French is extremely rusty, as I guess most English folks is if they didn't carry it on past their second year in Secondary / Grammar school!! :O)

AikiRooster 01-14-2003 11:50 PM

Seagal Sensei.
 
In my humble opinion, folks that bad mouth Seagal Sensei do so usually out of pure jealousy.

As a true fan of the sir however, I do feel obligated to point out that it is does seem odd with all the charges flying around against the mafia and mafia types by him through the FBI. Granted the media sucks and hate him for whatever reason and they will never print a stroy with the truth about him. However, as aikidoka or students of any style with aiki principles, I don't think it's proper anybody bad mouth a legitimate Sensei authenticated by a legitimate organization. So, unless the sir does something really stupid like commit a priestlike felony, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also, about his Aikido, I don't understand how anyone that truly knows anything at all about him can deny it's realness, authenticity, whatever you want a call it.

Leave the sir alone, and show your worthy of sharing the aiki spirit which means to back up your fellow aiki like their your family because in essence, they are.

SeiserL 01-15-2003 08:02 AM

I have seen some of his seminar tapes, and his technical looked very good. IMHO, nothing brings more attention to something than those who critize it. Do not worry about Seagal's Aikido, get back to the mat and train your own.

Until again,

Lynn


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