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-   -   Respect (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2484)

akiy 08-29-2002 02:47 PM

Respect
 
Hi everyone,

Can I take a moment to remind people that, although this is the "Open Discussion" forum where any topic may be discussed, the same forum rules as in the other forums including "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect" still applies?

I know that there are some "controversial" subjects that are currently being discussed which I think is great! But, please do approach your discussions with a modicum of civility, tact, and diplomacy as well as a healthy dollop of respect.

Thank you.

-- Jun

Bruce Baker 08-30-2002 02:13 PM

Indeed, I know I have stepped over the line now and then, but it was in the spirit of open forum, a level playing field, and no intention of truly offending my fellow Aikido threadposters.

Although a slight annoyance now and then does shake up the general poplulation, doesn't it?

I would hope all jabs would be well intentioned, and my apologies for those not taken as such.

Sorry if I have offended any of you with my flat sense of humor and intentional/ unintentional jabs.

Neil Mick 09-03-2002 12:38 AM

Attack the opinion, not the person.

Everyone has a piece of the puzzle, and no one is completely wrong.

Just my 2cents.

akiy 09-06-2002 09:28 AM

Hi everyone,

I've been getting complaints from more than one person involved in a particularly controversial and "volatile" thread that's currently going on here in the Open Discussions forum. I don't want to get into the specifics of it (as I haven't been following the particular thread) nor am I going to serve as any kind of arbiter in this case, but I thought I'd bring up my thoughts here.

I think discussing controversial topics is great -- as long as people discuss such with the very first rule of the AikiWeb Forums in mind: "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect."

I believe, though in any case, that there's a danger, in discussing controversial topics, especially those involving personal belief systems such as politics, religion, and such. One thing these kinds of discussions tend to do, in my experience and observation, is create rifts rather than bridges. These Forums, even the Open Discussion forum, are meant to do the latter, not the former.

I don't want these Forums to be a means of harboring people's attacks on each other. It causes me pain to hear people calling each other names, pointing fingers across the table, and accusing each other of this and that. Really, it does. I did not spend hundreds of hours creating this website for such.

Personally, I don't think we need more of such in our lives. I feel like I get enough of that just driving to work, much less reading the newspapers!

So, please, folks. I'm trying to keep these Forums as open as they possibly can be as I very much believe that open discussion is a healthy addition in everyone's lives. But, please approach every discussion, even those that push your buttons, with respect, understanding, and a sense of sharing.

Or, as Mom used to say (albeit, to me, in Japanese) -- "I don't care who started it. Behave!"

Regards,

-- Jun

Lan Powers 10-24-2002 08:51 PM

doesn't Aikido =Harmony also equate with respect for each other as part of the aim of Aikido? Should go without saying, if truly

"harmonious". Peace Brothers

Kelly Allen 01-25-2003 02:50 AM

Well said Jun! Aikai to all.

akiy 02-28-2003 01:04 PM

Hi everyone,

Just a reminder to please keep what I wrote above in mind when posting to the Open Discussion forum (and all other forums) here on AikiWeb.

I really would rather not have to issue warnings and/or account deactivations to people unable to follow the first Forum Rule, "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect."

Thank you.

-- Jun

Les Kelso 03-02-2003 01:21 PM

personal attacks
 
Quote:

Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote:
Hi everyone,

Just a reminder to please keep what I wrote above in mind when posting to the Open Discussion forum (and all other forums) here on AikiWeb.

I really would rather not have to issue warnings and/or account deactivations to people unable to follow the first Forum Rule, "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect."

Thank you.

-- Jun

Hi Jun,

Barbara and I enjoy the forums tremendously but wonder when your dictates kick in.?

One supposed "black belt" from Taiwan? has repeatedly maligned and threatened a well known and revered sensei from Midland and seems to continue to do so unabated. We also recently heard this "black belt" has been banned from a similar web site for similar activities..Do you issue a series of warnings to the individuals in question prior to taking action? How much damage has to be done to the credibility of the web site and innocent reputations before action is taken?

Les Kelso

JeffBayard 09-19-2003 03:49 PM

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn (again, perhaps?), since presently I'm only an Aikidoka wannabee of sorts who hasn't been able to start studies yet. I just wanted to suggest that maybe people who attack others in such ways as described above are actually doing more harm to themselves than anybody else. People with such aggression who just have to win and have everybody agree with them and see things their way seem to make themselves look small and insecure rather than big. Personally, when I find myself thinking along those lines, I try to stop myself and realize that my perspective has become myopic, I've lost sight of the bigger picture. When on the receiving end of such an attitude, while it certainly can be annoying, I try to look at such nuissances as opportunities to better myself in how I take it. Am I in control of myself, or will I get sucked into it?

I think this thread brings up an important issue, and the posts on it are well spoken. When it comes to respect, the first step is to respect yourself, thus facilitating the ability to respect those around you. If someone is intolerant enough not to be able to at least agree to disagree, unless in a dire situation (disagreeing with Taliban's hateful ethics, for example), maybe that person is disrespecting him/herself even more so than disrespecting others. Just a thought, for what it's worth.

Again, I look forward to reading people's posts on these forums, and hope that soon I can participate actively in studying Aikido myself which should also help me to make more valid contributions to this site. Take care, all!

Kensho Furuya 10-03-2003 10:26 AM

In the several years after O'Sensei's passing, one high ranking teacher was making plans to split away from Hombu Dojo and start his own group. During those years, he and his followers said many negative and demeaning things against 2nd Doshu, but Doshu never made any comment - to the point that even his supporters were becoming very frustrated and disappointed in him. One day, I couldn't stand it any longer and went to Doshu and said, "Why don't you say something back against this person or defend yourself against such remarks, it is so painful to all of us to hear such things."

Doshu became very stern and reprimanded me saying (literally), "We practice Aikido, we do not say bad things against others." And he turned and walked away.

I was so ashamed of myself (as frustrated as I still was) but I so admired Doshu that he truly was enlightened into Aikido and its teachings as no other person I have ever met. After all these years, I still have not mastered his valuable lesson to me. But I know that, as far as Doshu was concerned, people who practice Aikido do not speak ill of others whatever the circmstances and that is it.

indomaresa 12-13-2003 12:12 PM

Akiyama-san, If banning is necessary please do something now.

Some people have already verbally attacked Furuya Sensei, causing him to quit from aikiweb entirely. And they are attacking the person, not the opinion.

This is horrible, his writings are one of the reason I'm into aikiweb now.

hoi 12-13-2003 02:14 PM

Quote:

Maresa Sumardi (indomaresa) wrote:
Akiyama-san, If banning is necessary please do something now.

Some people have already verbally attacked Furuya Sensei, causing him to quit from aikiweb entirely. And they are attacking the person, not the opinion.

This is horrible, his writings are one of the reason I'm into aikiweb now.

For a while I stopped visiting AikiWeb because ... until one day I ventured into the "Voices Of Experience" forum and read Furuya Sensei's experiences. Like Sumardi-san, I visit Aikiweb often now to check on what Furuya Sensei has posted.

Furuya Sensei contribution on the thread "Bowing to the Kamiza" and the significance of clapping was quite informative. It wasn't a challenge to anyone beliefs, yet a few received that way.

I wish Furuya Sensei will continue to contribute in the "Voices Of Experience" forum and not worry about venturing out of that "dojo." I also wish that more of the "Voices Of Experience" members would bequeath their experiences and wisdom to us young'uns.

David Edwards 03-26-2004 02:52 PM

Quote:

"...Speak ill of others and it will surely come back to you. The mountain does not speak ill of the river because it is lowly, nor does the river laugh at the moutain because it cannot move around"
I read this in Tohei Sensei's "Aikido: Coordination of mind and body for self-defence", it's an unattributed quotation, so maybe it is a proverb, or maybe it was said by Tohei Sensei, or O Sensei, I don't know... but I like to apply it when I can. Of course, often I will have negative opinions of people or things, and sometimes I voice those opinions; I'm only human. I do try to voice them as respectfully as I can, however. Particularly valuable as I guide for dealing with conflicts I find "Aikido in Everyday Life" (Dobson/Miller), which talks about how to deal with arguments and other such things as if they were attacks in Aikido; be aware of them, avoid them before they happen if such is possible, if not harmonize with them, let them pass you by; not in the bury-your-head-in-the-sand way, but in a way that resolves the conflict without damage to either party. I don't explain it very well, and strongly recommend that people read the book if they have not already.

But hey, I'm no saint. But I do try.

Aikidoiain 09-20-2004 05:48 AM

Re: Respect
 
Hi Jun,

I sincerely hope I am not the person you are referring to as having received complaints about. I have never intentionally or otherwise tried to offend or attack anyone. It is simply because I am mentally ill that I am very defensive due to years of prejudice from others.

If it is myself who is creating rifts and causing complaint, I shall leave immediately. Please let me know. I really am not that kind of person.

If you've read my recent post on the "Just curious..." thread, I try my best to offer some insight into what it's like to suffer 20 years of prejudice. It does destroy you emotionally.

Please let me know.

Iain :ki: :)

Chuck.Gordon 09-20-2004 07:15 AM

Re: Respect
 
Iain,

Please check the dates on the posts you're referring to. They're from a couple years back and couldn't be about you.

I know you've got some probs (don't we all?), and they're very important to you ...

However, before you go on the defensive, make sure the attack is truly directed at you.

Chuck

JAHsattva 10-08-2004 09:07 AM

Re: Respect
 
respect to all :D
i just wanted to add that , just as in the dojo, everyone trains in aikido for different reasons. in the dojo we must respect that. on this site we must as well.

one could be training aikido for spiritual reasons ,and the next person could be a cop and training for technical reasons.
on the mat we shouldnt let these reasons cause us to stray from training.

:ai:
:ki:
:do:

Bill Danosky 12-04-2004 05:13 PM

Re: Respect
 
Quote:

Maresa Sumardi wrote:
Akiyama-san, If banning is necessary please do something now.

Some people have already verbally attacked Furuya Sensei, causing him to quit from aikiweb entirely. And they are attacking the person, not the opinion.

This is horrible, his writings are one of the reason I'm into aikiweb now.

DITTO, Sumardi-san! Dig my thread about this: http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6944

sutemaker17 07-02-2005 10:14 AM

Re: Respect
 
Jun is right guys and gals. We can pull this together. After all we are "only human". So, lets allow everyone to be. I promise all of you I will do my part and treat everyone with respect.
Jason

Edwin Neal 02-03-2006 08:52 PM

Re: Respect
 
hmmm wonder what this was all about... no one of any rank, age, ethnicity, etc, should take offense at any thing written on a public forum... why would you, what's the point... typing insults back and forth ho hum... turn off your computer and practice...

rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength...

Neil Mick 02-05-2006 03:22 PM

Re: Respect
 
Quote:

Jun Akiyama wrote:
Hi everyone,

Or, as Mom used to say (albeit, to me, in Japanese) -- "I don't care who started it. Behave!"

Regards,

-- Jun

I've always wondered...how DO you say "I don't care who started it. Behave!" in Japanese (as a mother, speaking to her kids)? :D

merlynn 03-19-2006 08:21 AM

Re: Respect
 
ok i know I'm guilty of the offense you speak of jun and i apologize to you and the others now. i have there fore asked if the other person i was arguing with to come off aikiweb and speak to me on my private messenger if we are to attack each other verbally. once again i would like to apologize and thoroughly hang my head in shame

Mauricio Camargo 09-20-2006 03:17 PM

Re: Respect
 
"In the several years after O'Sensei's passing, one high ranking teacher was making plans to split away from Hombu Dojo and start his own group. During those years, he and his followers said many negative and demeaning things against 2nd Doshu, but Doshu never made any comment - to the point that even his supporters were becoming very frustrated and disappointed in him. One day, I couldn't stand it any longer and went to Doshu and said, "Why don't you say something back against this person or defend yourself against such remarks, it is so painful to all of us to hear such things."

Doshu became very stern and reprimanded me saying (literally), "We practice Aikido, we do not say bad things against others." And he turned and walked away."


Here one of the reasons why I practice aikido

akiy 01-10-2007 11:10 AM

Re: Respect
 
Hi folks,

With the start of the new year, I just wanted to take a moment and request that people please read the posts that I made above. Although I wrote them years ago, I still stand by my feelings and thoughts and hope that posters here will take them to heart as well.

Thank you,

-- Jun

Neil Mick 01-10-2007 11:26 AM

Re: Respect
 
Hello Jun,

Since I often write about controversial topics, I have followed your request and re-read the posts about etiquette, above. In re-reading them, I can sense your mounting frustration, and if I am in any way responsible ("letting the genie out of the bottle"), apologies.

I cannot speak for others, but I certainly do not come online to "cause trouble," and it is my wish that ppl would do the same, and abide by the very reeasonable guidelines for etiquette, that you ask.

In debating politics, it's simple: "Attack the idea, not the person." It's one thing to say that "that's the nuttiest idea I have ever heard;" quite another to say that "you're a nutcase (as was recently posted)," for thinking that idea. It is often easy to forget that there is a live person reading these posts on the other end of the monitor: but they are and it reflects poorly on the whole discussion, when even one person uses personal attacks.

I ask the ppl who use this technique: please, if you do not like what I say, PM me and cuss me out to your heart's content (you wouldn't be the first...I've gotten everything from physical threats to threats of legal action). I will respond, with etiquette.

Mark Freeman 01-11-2007 10:19 AM

Re: Respect
 
Quote:

Neil Mick wrote:
In debating politics, it's simple: "Attack the idea, not the person." It's one thing to say that "that's the nuttiest idea I have ever heard;" quite another to say that "you're a nutcase (as was recently posted)," for thinking that idea. It is often easy to forget that there is a live person reading these posts on the other end of the monitor: but they are and it reflects poorly on the whole discussion, when even one person uses personal attacks.

That's the nuttiest idea I have ever heard! :crazy:

Sorry Neil, couldn't resist it ;)

respect

Mark


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