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-   -   LE-Sankyo on a tight fist (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240)

Tim Haffner 09-05-2000 05:28 PM

I'd appreciate your advice from a Law Enforcement perspective. Most LE officers find the Sankyo-Kote Hineri technique useful for applying handcuffs to a standing subject. Even if they have to use brute force, it is effective in applying mechanical leverage and pain compliance to a resisting subject, and get the hands to the small of the back.
My question is in the application to a resisting and tensed subject the has closed his hands into tight fists. I know that most aikidoka would advise to flow into another technique and attempt kuzushi, and take the balance. I agree!
However, experienced Corrections Officers,and LEO's will relate to how a subject can barricade himself against a wall, vehicle, the ground, etc., and clench his fists up to his chest.
So again, I look for suggestions for applying Sankyo to the closed fist of a resistant subject.
Thanks in advance!

chillzATL 09-05-2000 09:52 PM

I've had a very similar problem in the dojo in the past with other newer aikidoka who wanted to tighten up their fist as a natural reaction to the technique. If the person can draw their arm in and still has control of the arm, you simply should not try to use sankyo because you are fighting muscle iwth muscle and you could lose, depending on your strength and theirs. if you have control of the arm. it's away from their body and you have their leverage, only their fist is clinched. well, you shouldn't really have to do anything out of the ordinary. You just don't have a set of fingers down there to grasp. your upper hand grasps the top of their hand and your lower hand just gets what it can of the hand. The most important thing is having control of the arm, not the fist. From the situation you are describing, you've already got the assailants arm behind them and are just trying to get better control of them? correct? This really isn't a good situation where you can apply a traditional sankyo, as you don't have any leverage, you are just muscling them. You could try just pulling their arm straight out away from their back as you torque the wrist in and start to stand them more upright by it.

Russ 09-06-2000 02:02 PM

During a seminar with Suganuma Sensei he had uke maintain a tightly closed fist while demonstrating sankyo. It seemed like he put the palm of his free hand on ukes thumb and applied pressure. Uke moved pretty fast at that point.

When doing it myself I find this is immediately effective with folks of equal or lesser strength and sporadically effective with those who are physically stronger.

We don't practise this way alot, however, I could see it becoming quite effective regardless of ukes size when studied more often.

Good luck.

Tim Haffner 09-07-2000 11:56 AM

Palm against the thumb and apply pressure?
 
Thanks for the replies.

Russ,
I was hoping that you could clarify Suganuma Sensei's method. I've seen people attempt to put the blade of their hand into the closed fingers and peel them downward. I guess the thumb would be included in that. Perhaps you mean bending the thumb into itself to cause pain. Please let me know.

Russ 09-07-2000 12:25 PM

Hi Tim,

To clarify, place your free palm on uke's thumb and apply the same extension you would for a regular sankyo. Extending energy and turning your hips toward uke. If you're particularly strong try "crushing" the thumb into uke's clenched fingers. Your idea of bending the thumb into itself to cause pain is pretty close to the idea. Debatable as to whether it's "aiki" but whatever works. I apologize if my exlpanation lacks..., it's one of those "gotta do it to figure it out" things. Good luck!


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