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-   -   Banned from Aikido... (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23308)

john2054 01-16-2014 01:42 PM

Banned from Aikido...
 
Because of me saying i wanted to 'street fight' with this bird on the net. Probably for the best?

Brian Gillaspie 01-16-2014 02:26 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Just curious as to what type of discussion you are expecting. Are you asking if your banishment was justified?

robin_jet_alt 01-16-2014 02:28 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
How can you be banned from aikido? Your school might have banned you, but there are others. I'm sure you would be welcome to train with us, unless you did something to annoy sensei ;)

Campbell 01-16-2014 07:01 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

John Robinson wrote: (Post 334268)
Because of me saying i wanted to 'street fight' with this bird on the net. Probably for the best?

bird on the net?

ramenboy 01-16-2014 08:25 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 334271)
How can you be banned from aikido? Your school might have banned you, but there are others. I'm sure you would be welcome to train with us, unless you did something to annoy sensei ;)

I was gonna say something similar.... Banned from your dojo /club, maybe. But not aikido.

Go to another dojo maybe

Many aikido folk in their younger days went out to 'test' their aikido

john2054 01-17-2014 12:10 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Hi people thanks for your kind replies. Well the good news is that I have talked with the chief sensei who has asked me to take some time out and then reconsider joining in 5-6 months. So all is not lost. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5101452AAoHDsShttp://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6143141AA57BsQ

Janet Rosen 01-17-2014 12:53 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
(sigh)

Eva Antonia 01-17-2014 02:02 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Hi, this made me laugh.
Neither "some lessons in krav maga" nor an "aikido yellow belt" will be decisive for winning a fight. So if you do/ did this street fight, the winner would have won because of sheer force, velocity, brutality, biting/ ball kicking or whatever, but not thanks to superior martial arts skills.
I wouldn't see any reason to ban someone due to a "fight for fun", but maybe there is a reason for banning in making Internet publicity for this fight and linking it to questionable aikido skills?

I'd just ignore this type of challenge, and if you're really interested in seeing how far your aikido takes you against some other's krav maga, go to MMA or similar training and see what it's worth.

Best,

Eva

Demetrio Cereijo 01-17-2014 05:32 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

John Robinson wrote: (Post 334300)
Hi people thanks for your kind replies. Well the good news is that I have talked with the chief sensei who has asked me to take some time out and then reconsider joining in 5-6 months. So all is not lost.

You could spend these 5-6 months training a combat sport.

Mary Eastland 01-17-2014 06:30 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
chirp

Brian Gillaspie 01-17-2014 07:34 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
So you want to "fight" someone because they think they are a better fighter than you. Do you challenge everyone who thinks they may be more skilled at something than you? If you do I'm afraid you're going to be busy for a while because there is always someone out there who will think they are better than you at some activity (martial arts, swimming, running, basket weaving, etc.).

You also mentioned fighting without hurting each other which mean some rules come into play. If there are rules you are really not fighting. All you are doing at that point is seeing who is better performing under those rules.

I don't know you or your instructor but based on this discussion in my opinion if you can't let go of your ego it sounds like the dojo you were at may not be a good fit for you.

lbb 01-17-2014 08:19 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Hey, UK folks, clue me in. In the United States, there's a widely mistaken belief that two people can simply decide to get in a fight, and it's all fine because they agreed to do it. In fact, indulging in such foolishness puts you at risk for a charge of assault, and the fact that the other party agreed to the fight is no defense. That's just the penalty before anyone even gets hurt, mind you. As soon as someone else does, you're either on the receiving end, or you're looking at additional criminal and civil penalties. Is the situation vastly different in the UK, so that people can simply go about challenging each other to fights, and as long as the other party says, "OK!" everybody gets to sleep at home that night?

Michael Douglas 01-17-2014 10:00 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

John Robinson wrote: (Post 334268)
Because of ...

:D
I'm banned from Pizza.

Its a worldwide ban, not just my local outlets. Consider yourself lucky.

Malicat 01-17-2014 11:28 AM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
You know, it's amazing. I'm 3 years in with a bit over 1000 hours in to my Aikido training, and I have recently come to the conclusion that if someone took a swing at me, I have a better than even chance of getting out of the way and not getting hit. Maybe I'm just a slow learner?

john2054 01-17-2014 12:00 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Hi everyone. I'm banned from the club for the time being at least. Like i said above, i had no intention of hurting the above mentioned parties, but to be quite honest with you this has all blown up out of proportion (into some kind of red tiger). If i'm not allowed to do Aikido quite frankly it's their loss. With my degree and mental health issues an ongoing concern, i do have other priorities you know?

Chris Li 01-17-2014 12:29 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with two people rolling around and trying it out by mutual consent. From the lineage on the website of the dojo in question I know for a fact that their instructor Shigeho Tanaka did just that. So did Morihei Ueshiba, Sokaku Takeda, and just about everybody from that generation. What exactly is the problem?

Best,

Chris

ramenboy 01-17-2014 01:37 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 334333)
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with two people rolling around and trying it out by mutual consent. From the lineage on the website of the dojo in question I know for a fact that their instructor Shigeho Tanaka did just that. So did Morihei Ueshiba, Sokaku Takeda, and just about everybody from that generation. What exactly is the problem?

Best,

Chris

my point exactly...i remember reading that gozo shioda also did this...

James Sawers 01-17-2014 02:06 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Perhaps because the "bird" in question is female (and there is no mention of her rank/qualifications) to engage in such activity (or, if she even wants to). Also, I thought this type of "dojo storming" went out in the 60s....??

Seems that there may be more at issue here than first indicated to be "banned" from aikido.....

john2054 01-17-2014 02:45 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
yeah true bird=female

however in my defence i'd like to say that this young woman was under the impression that she was a lot better than me, whereas i consider mma and krav-ma as to being subferior to aiki training, and hence i thought i had a chance. also this person in question told me that she had numerous degrees whereas i am training for my first.

i think the issue at stake here is that i put this on the web, and it got back to my clubs number two. who gave me a roasting. im really not bothered and big deal. listen ive got mental illness. ive been in hospitals where you CAN'T get away with talking like this in front of the staff. trust me it's like water of a ducks back.

I'm reading les mis by victor hugo, and for not the first time in my life i can relate to jean valjean after he escapes the galleys in the first book or two of that novel.

James Sawers 01-17-2014 03:01 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

John Robinson wrote: (Post 334337)
yeah true bird=female

however in my defence i'd like to say that this young woman was under the impression that she was a lot better than me, whereas i consider mma and krav-ma as to being subferior to aiki training, and hence i thought i had a chance. also this person in question told me that she had numerous degrees whereas i am training for my first.

i think the issue at stake here is that i put this on the web, and it got back to my clubs number two. who gave me a roasting. im really not bothered and big deal. listen ive got mental illness. ive been in hospitals where you CAN'T get away with talking like this in front of the staff. trust me it's like water of a ducks back.

I'm reading les mis by victor hugo, and for not the first time in my life i can relate to jean valjean after he escapes the galleys in the first book or two of that novel.

Actually, there is no defense here.......the fact that you are not really bothered by this is telling in itself, and should be a red flag for you. Listen to your senior club members as to what is considered appropriate aikido/dojo behavior. Let them be your guide.

Hilary 01-17-2014 03:23 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
If you named your school or affiliation publicly, then you are a bad boy, do not drag your dojo or sensei into your cat fight; it is rude and disrespectful. And even if you have not named them, in the internet age your affiliation will likely be revealed and well…your sensei ends up having to explain his student’s actions.

Neither of you are likely skilled at the arts you have been trained in, you are beginners, and that is a recipe for disaster. Back in my kempo days the most dangerous students were the green belts (in that system half way to shodan), because they had finally figured out how to deliver power, but did not yet have control. A street fight ehh, with fingers in the eyes, joint breaks via locks, strikes and throws, head butts, incisors to the carotid or ear (a full Tyson) when close? And on your part you going to pull her joints apart or whip out a break fall shionage?

As Chris Li and other have pointed out, testing your technology is a time honored tradition in many circles. You are not ready of that, the fact that this bubbled up at all indicates that both of you have a little ego problem. That she thinks her art is superior to yours is irrelevant, she can think what she wants, you don’t have to get caught up in the monkey dance. That you have says volumes to your state of mind. Chill you are a student.

Krystal Locke 01-17-2014 04:08 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 334318)
Hey, UK folks, clue me in. In the United States, there's a widely mistaken belief that two people can simply decide to get in a fight, and it's all fine because they agreed to do it. In fact, indulging in such foolishness puts you at risk for a charge of assault, and the fact that the other party agreed to the fight is no defense. That's just the penalty before anyone even gets hurt, mind you. As soon as someone else does, you're either on the receiving end, or you're looking at additional criminal and civil penalties. Is the situation vastly different in the UK, so that people can simply go about challenging each other to fights, and as long as the other party says, "OK!" everybody gets to sleep at home that night?

Yup, that's a super-common urban legend in my state and profession. Nope, folks cant just choose to fight in public. Least not in my state. Off the top, a mutual public fight would be disturbing the peace. Probably get some assault charges as well, Just yelling threats at someone can get an assault charge. Self-defense claims get seriously muddled in mutual combat situations. One up conventions also get really messy when folks try to claim mutual combat.

Better solution. Dont fight.

Krystal Locke 01-17-2014 04:33 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 334333)
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with two people rolling around and trying it out by mutual consent. From the lineage on the website of the dojo in question I know for a fact that their instructor Shigeho Tanaka did just that. So did Morihei Ueshiba, Sokaku Takeda, and just about everybody from that generation. What exactly is the problem?

Best,

Chris

Did they throw down publicly, or within a dojo or some sort of sanctioned event? Did they break the laws of their place and time? Should they have participated in such thing? Has society changed a lot over the last several decades?

I'd just invite the lady to come train with me for a while. That way, no fighting, and everybody learns. If what I like to do suits her, great. If what I do is beneath her skills and abilities, I learn something. If what she does is not up to the dojo's snuff, we've got a new student, I've got a friend, and Bob's your uncle....

It is hardly ever a single incident will get a person sent to the sin bin. Especially in a dojo.

Janet Rosen 01-17-2014 06:20 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

James Sawers wrote: (Post 334338)
Actually, there is no defense here.......the fact that you are not really bothered by this is telling in itself, and should be a red flag for you. Listen to your senior club members as to what is considered appropriate aikido/dojo behavior. Let them be your guide.

Yep. The late Gayle Fillman Sensei was known to remove people from membership short term or not allow them to rank if their dojo OR public community behavior was egregious. Having trained at other dojos where people got away with all kinds of nonsense I found this a refreshing stand on the role of ethics in budo.

hughrbeyer 01-17-2014 10:03 PM

Re: Banned from Aikido...
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 334342)
It is hardly ever a single incident will get a person sent to the sin bin.

This.


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