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mathewjgano 12-02-2013 02:00 PM

Term changes
 
Hi folks, per another thread, I was curious about the changes in terms for describing the roles of uke and nage. Was this simply a case of a newer generation using more contemporary terminology? Does it reflect a shift in emphasis (either de facto or by design)?
Any insights would be appreciated.
Take care!

odudog 12-02-2013 06:31 PM

Re: Term changes
 
What change in terms are you curious about? Further clarification is needed.

mathewjgano 12-02-2013 09:26 PM

Re: Term changes
 
Quote:

Mike Braxton wrote: (Post 332796)
What change in terms are you curious about? Further clarification is needed.

I was under the impression that older styles of Aikido tend to use shite/tori and that newer styles tend to use nage/uke. I was curious if this reflects a conscious, purposeful, change...or, I suppose, if it's even an accurate description.

Carsten Möllering 12-03-2013 12:26 AM

Re: Term changes
 
Quote:

Matthew Gano wrote: (Post 332798)
I was under the impression that older styles of Aikido tend to use shite/tori ...

I never heard the attacker being called "tori".
Where do you hear that?

When practicing with Endō Seishiro we very seldom have shite and aite. But mostly, allmost ever, tori and uke is used.

PaulF 12-03-2013 02:47 AM

Re: Term changes
 
It's uke and nage for us. We had shi'te and tori used instead of nage at the coaching course recently (lots of different styles represented) and no one got confused. Not up on the history of why different terms are used or any nuances in meaning I'm afraid.

mathewjgano 12-03-2013 10:56 AM

Re: Term changes
 
Quote:

Carsten Möllering wrote: (Post 332799)
I never heard the attacker being called "tori".
Where do you hear that?

When practicing with Endō Seishiro we very seldom have shite and aite. But mostly, allmost ever, tori and uke is used.

Sorry, Carsten, that was a mistake. I meant aite.
(As usual, mucking things up...my subconscious ongoing attempt at keeping myself humble :D )

BTW, FWIW, at my school we use aite and tori a lot, but also uke and nage, so they've always seemed more or less like synonyms to me.

phitruong 12-03-2013 11:21 AM

Re: Term changes
 
aren't we due for a name change? i vote for bozo and waldo. :)

mathewjgano 12-03-2013 12:10 PM

Re: Term changes
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 332817)
aren't we due for a name change? i vote for bozo and waldo. :)

:D Works for me: I regularly feel like a bozo in my search for waldo.

odudog 12-03-2013 06:08 PM

Re: Term changes
 
This is just a function of preference. Doesn't dictate if a style is new or old. Aite means opponent. Tori means to grab, to hold, take posession of, ect... Shite is a conjucated form of a word meaning to do, so the person doing the technique.

mathewjgano 12-04-2013 12:55 PM

Re: Term changes
 
Quote:

Mike Braxton wrote: (Post 332827)
This is just a function of preference. Doesn't dictate if a style is new or old. Aite means opponent. Tori means to grab, to hold, take posession of, ect... Shite is a conjucated form of a word meaning to do, so the person doing the technique.

Thanks, Mike!

Tom Verhoeven 01-13-2014 03:52 PM

Re: Term changes
 
Hello Matthew, nice to see that you are still posting.

The terms uke and nage describe a situation in the past tense. One person has thrown the other, the other has been thrown.

That works fine when we are doing kata, we know in advance which person is going to perform which role.

But if we study and practice genuine Aiki, then we do not really want to know in advance which role we are supposed to take.

So I prefer not to use the terms uke and nage. I rather use Aite and Shite instead.

The latter terms were used by actor / playwright Zeami to express two equal members of a play.

O Sensei had a distinct preference for these two terms for the same reasons as Zeami.

mathewjgano 01-13-2014 05:26 PM

Re: Term changes
 
Quote:

Tom Verhoeven wrote: (Post 334175)
Hello Matthew, nice to see that you are still posting.

The terms uke and nage describe a situation in the past tense. One person has thrown the other, the other has been thrown.

That works fine when we are doing kata, we know in advance which person is going to perform which role.

But if we study and practice genuine Aiki, then we do not really want to know in advance which role we are supposed to take.

So I prefer not to use the terms uke and nage. I rather use Aite and Shite instead.

The latter terms were used by actor / playwright Zeami to express two equal members of a play.

O Sensei had a distinct preference for these two terms for the same reasons as Zeami.

Hi Tom! Thank you for the info!


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