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tim evans 11-22-2013 07:52 PM

Knock out game? training
 
A new dangerous game is making it,s way around the united states. where either groups or individuals walk up to people and sucker punch them for no reason. How do you train for this? Awareness is number one for me and eye contact not directly but enough to let someone know your aware of your surroundings. Thoughts.

bkedelen 11-23-2013 12:35 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
How is awareness and partial eye contact going to help you knock someone out at random? If you want to win at this one I would say some boxing is in order. Find a way to integrate a straight right into a normal, perhaps jaunty stride to catch folks off their guard. Is palming a roll of quarters cheating? In any case good luck to you out there.

Janet Rosen 11-23-2013 12:49 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
LOL!! Thank you, Benjamin, for best literal syntactic interpretation of the day!

tim evans 11-23-2013 02:50 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Benjamin Edelen wrote: (Post 332492)
How is awareness and partial eye contact going to help you knock someone out at random? If you want to win at this one I would say some boxing is in order. Find a way to integrate a straight right into a normal, perhaps jaunty stride to catch folks off their guard. Is palming a roll of quarters cheating? In any case good luck to you out there.

Being Aware and Eye contact show confidence.Body language means everything ,if your heads down with the iPod in your a ideal victim in this game. Watch a few vids of it being done and let me know if the victims had a clue or not.

Kevin Leavitt 11-23-2013 09:42 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
I think the disturbing part of this is that any of us could be on the victim side of this. There is little or no indicators that this is coming from the videos I watched. What is more amazing is the sheep mentality of the bystanders who do absolutely nothing but watch the perp walk away. If people would immediately go after the perp then the cost/benefit ratio would rise and this stuff might stop.

I don't really think there is much you can do to prepare yourself for this frankly.

Janet Rosen 11-23-2013 11:10 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
I have been wondering if this is partly a created issue and indeed the New York Times today carries an article that reinforces my belief it is an urban myth that may become real only because of idiots who hear about it.

Malicat 11-23-2013 11:29 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 332505)
I have been wondering if this is partly a created issue and indeed the New York Times today carries an article that reinforces my belief it is an urban myth that may become real only because of idiots who hear about it.

I agree with Janet on this one. All of the headlines appear to be the same, and everything I have read about this makes me think it's a hoax.

tim evans 11-23-2013 12:09 PM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Columbus Ohio had a few cases of it Chicago as well and I agree that the medias coverage of it isn,t helping stop it at all.

Janet Rosen 11-23-2013 03:05 PM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Tim, the articles I have read make it sound like some acts of totally random violence (which have always happened) may be getting described as "a game" by local papers...sort of like the BS around "wilding" which never actually existed.

phitruong 11-23-2013 04:56 PM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
it's fun and game until someone get shot, then it would just be fun.

Carsten Möllering 11-24-2013 12:41 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
We had that discussion over here in Germany some years ago:
The "game" was said to be played in the UK: Two or three teenagers atacking a random victim. Another one shooting it with his cellphone. Interestingly they seemed to seek out victims who didn't fit to the usual "predator-prey system". So the behaviour you learn to not be victimized didn't help here. It was called "happy slapping". Some of the vids where uploaded to youtube.
Anyway. There was a biiiiiig discussion in the newspapers about that. But the phenomenon never reached us. (Good the UK is an isle...) But. Some weeks later the phenomenon had also left the UK. (maybe by boat, ... maybe aiming for the US ... )

Walter Martindale 11-24-2013 06:55 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
I'd heard about this sort of thing happening in the UK (A walks up to B, punches B in the face while C films with camera on phone), A and C (and perhaps others) have a laugh, B wonders WTF happened...
But that was 4-5 years ago.

bkedelen 11-24-2013 11:21 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Best thing to do is probably take an advanced driving course, quit smoking, eat mostly meat and vegetables, and get regular exercise. That should provide real protection against real problems. We already do mystical martial arts training to deal with snopes worthy problems like satanic cults, razor blades in your Halloween candy, and impromptu street fights.

Steven 11-24-2013 11:08 PM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
http://news.yahoo.com/knockout-game-...opstories.html

Demetrio Cereijo 11-25-2013 04:52 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 332530)
it's fun and game until someone get shot, then it would just be fun.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4323723.html

jonreading 11-25-2013 07:27 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Its a random act of violence that is orchestrated for amusement. Unfortunately, inaccurate accounts of orchestrated acts of violence in the past occlude the actual occurrence and give us that, "this cannot be real." attitude. A big difference between these types of assaults and others is in many of these assaults there has not been an accompanying crime. No theft, no sexual misconduct, etc. This is a fairly common occurrence in urban centers and areas with gang violence - a demonstration of physical power and control over a group of subordinates. But, this is usually crime within a sub-culture, so it does not get much prominence in regular media. It's become prominent because the violence spilled out of the subculture for the moment so the media has to address it.

In other words, people are intentionally hitting others for amusement. The media labeled this type of assault as a "game", because there is no otherwise demonstrated purpose (i.e. robbery, sexual assault, etc.). That sounds much nicer than, "These people want to hurt you for fun."

It's tough to deal with this type of violence. Where I went to high school near Chicago, this was called "punking." Gangs would pick "punks", then isolate and attack the individual, hence "punking" someone. Occasionally they might take your jacket or shoes, but usually it was for fun. That was 20 years ago. Our counselors would advocate a "look less like a punk" approach. You don't have to be fast, just faster than the kid next to you.

Having actually been a victim of the game I can tell you it's real. The trouble is social culture does not have a defense for it because authority (police) can't prevent it. You can't prevent it. And you can't deter it because the assailant doesn't want anything from you. (Although right now the trend seems to be age, sex and race correlated.) Oh, and these people are choosing their victims based upon a perceived high probability of success, which also means they are not being caught.

Your best defense is to look like less of a victim than someone else in your vicinity. Kinda like pushing the sick and old gazelle to the outside of the herd. Lions gotta eat, we just wanna make sure those gazelle are sick or old. Of course, this strategy is probably a bitter pill for most of us.

lbb 11-25-2013 07:49 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Jon Reading wrote: (Post 332585)
Your best defense is to look like less of a victim than someone else in your vicinity. Kinda like pushing the sick and old gazelle to the outside of the herd. Lions gotta eat, we just wanna make sure those gazelle are sick or old. Of course, this strategy is probably a bitter pill for most of us.

Well...it's a functional strategy, but you're basing it on a false analogy. Lions gotta eat. The choice for a lion is, eat this gazelle or eat that gazelle, or starve. Teenagers don't gotta punch someone unconscious. Their choices in life, no matter how bleak, simply aren't limited to which person they punch.

jonreading 11-25-2013 08:17 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 332586)
Well...it's a functional strategy, but you're basing it on a false analogy. Lions gotta eat. The choice for a lion is, eat this gazelle or eat that gazelle, or starve. Teenagers don't gotta punch someone unconscious. Their choices in life, no matter how bleak, simply aren't limited to which person they punch.

Joking aside, it sounds like you can appreciate the trauma delivered by our counselors as they empowered us to, in fact, determine which of our peers would become more attractive for this particular cruelty by making ourselves less attractive. I guess that is why, 20 years after the sweaty palms, broken voices, and bad prom outfits, this still resonates with me.

In responses to your other comment, there are experts in gang violence that would suggest that members in a gang often are in a precarious situation of constantly being pressured to demonstrate their social place within the hierarchy of a gang. This activity is one of those outlets in which a gang member may assert their position. In other words, your are either [re]establishing your social position or declining; so from that perspective, many members of gangs do feel they "have" to do something to stay respected. While I have not read anything on the current trend, I would be interested to see if their was a correlated perspective among teens under similar peer stress.

Kevin Leavitt 11-25-2013 10:49 AM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 332586)
Well...it's a functional strategy, but you're basing it on a false analogy. Lions gotta eat. The choice for a lion is, eat this gazelle or eat that gazelle, or starve. Teenagers don't gotta punch someone unconscious. Their choices in life, no matter how bleak, simply aren't limited to which person they punch.

No but you do need to change the cost/benefit ratio somehow. that is what is key to this really. Or they simply get bored and move on.

Agree with Jon's assessment. This concerns me more than robbery as they simply don't want something. With Robbery violence is a secondary affect of the crime, a means to the end. with this it is the endstate, so you have a very difficult time affecting that endstate with "soft power". That is, reducing your risk by not wearing valuables, walking with a friend etc.

In this crime, these things simply may not matter. Again, what I think increases the cost benefit ratio is that bystanders will not accept it and will act in some way. Increase the risk of punishment, then this behavior simply stops as it becomes too costly to engage in it.

jonreading 11-25-2013 12:01 PM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Kevin Leavitt wrote: (Post 332598)
In this crime, these things simply may not matter. Again, what I think increases the cost benefit ratio is that bystanders will not accept it and will act in some way. Increase the risk of punishment, then this behavior simply stops as it becomes too costly to engage in it.

At our local community meetings (I live in a rough part of town here in the ATL), the gang task force officers almost uniformly recommend increasing community pressure to increase the likelihood of apprehension and conviction for offenses. That is, once the chance of getting away with the crime declines, offenders are less likely to commit the crime.

mathewjgano 11-25-2013 02:53 PM

Re: Knock out game?training
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 332586)
Teenagers don't gotta punch someone unconscious. Their choices in life, no matter how bleak, simply aren't limited to which person they punch.

Definitely, but I think this kind of behavior plays into similar feelings on the part of the teenager. On a subconscious level perhaps, some of these kids are trying to show that they aren't a mark. It's a weak-minded view, but that's how a lot of people view the world. You're either a wolf or a sheep and if you're not acting like a wolf (or demonstrating to the other "wolves" your "wolf-like" behavior) then you might become a sheep. I remember in Jr High seeing one of the nicest guys (otherwise) punch one of the "omega" class of students in the back of the head, knocking him down. He and several other kids who didn't want to get lumped in with that "omega" role stepped on him as if nothing had happened. This is where I start to get concerned about popular media because it so often appeals to the lowest common denominator. I remember NWA talking about how they were just underground reporters, and while I think there was truth to that, they also glorified themselves. I'm not paying attention to it like I did, but it seems like now even the pretense of "reporting" has been dropped and you get almost pure glorification of young men with no brains and all balls...which perhaps highlights that "need" to actively demonstrate to the wolves, non-sheep-like behavior.
Quote:

Tim wrote:
How do you train for this? Awareness is number one for me and eye contact not directly but enough to let someone know your aware of your surroundings.

For this kind of "bulletproof impunity" mindset (it feels good to feel powerful) I think these are the key things...bearing in mind I'm no expert. In my mind there's a dilemma between letting the person/people know you know they're there and not challenging them. I've known too many people who took a direct gaze as threatening (and got in fights over it) to not pay attention to it, so I believe it needs to be tempered with a very relaxed, genuine, kind-hearted demeanor (the homonym association of love and :ai: ). A fixated scowl can be just as detrimental as having your head in the clouds when it comes to not being a target. Beyond that I think it's a matter of practicing scenarios and working on sharpening our senses (e.g. listening to and tracking the different footsteps around you instead of thinking about work, whatever). We are never 100% aware; we always have blind spots, so we cannot ever account for every possibility, but awareness/sensory training, and an intuitive awareness for the strengths and weaknesses inherent in the lay of the land around you seem like the best approach to this half-assed Aikidoist.
Also, I think people need to feel empowered. All those people who witness these kinds of child's play (i.e. no challenge to them) attacks are generally afraid to get involved because the events exist outside of their frame of reference; outside their recognized skillsets. Public safety requires public involvement (I agree with Jon that cops aren't able to stop things like this, generally speaking) and that requires individuals either stepping up on their own, or some kind of outreach to invite them to engage the issue.
...My two bits.
Take care!

David Yap 11-26-2013 01:29 AM

Re: Knock out game? training
 
And, this punk only gets 6 years for taking an innocent life :grr:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-25092280


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