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Dalaran1991 11-22-2013 04:54 AM

Lower back pain after training
 
I'm at the phase of my training where I'm taking a lot of high falls, and I love it!

Now the thing is, after every training session my lower back got quite uncomfortable. Any movement bending my back is very uncomfortable and very annoying. I wouldn't say that it hurts though. If it hurts then I guess it's something dangerous.

My Sensei makes us do a lot of stretching techniques after class, but this problem persist.

Anyone has the same problem and a few advices on what I should do?

Thanks :) !

phitruong 11-22-2013 07:37 AM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
guy told his doctor: "hey doc! it hurts when i do this. what you recommend?"
doctor: "stop doing it!"

Walter Martindale 11-22-2013 07:56 AM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Your sensei is an expert in aikido. Find an expert on lower backs. I've found Hamilton Hall (AKA The Back Doctor) helpful but the best as far as I know is Stuart McGill - www.backfitpro.com.

sakumeikan 11-22-2013 06:37 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 332456)
I'm at the phase of my training where I'm taking a lot of high falls, and I love it!

Now the thing is, after every training session my lower back got quite uncomfortable. Any movement bending my back is very uncomfortable and very annoying. I wouldn't say that it hurts though. If it hurts then I guess it's something dangerous.

My Sensei makes us do a lot of stretching techniques after class, but this problem persist.

Anyone has the same problem and a few advices on what I should do?

Thanks :) !

Hi Long,
Why take high falls? No wonder your back is sore.Use your common sense.Getting pulverised by over the top ukemi can cause hip/back problems later in life.Cheers, Joe.

aikijean 11-23-2013 02:10 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Like the other guys said: stop breakfalls. First you do not really have to do it to take ukemi second I do not know your age but believe me ten years from now your body will talk to you and not in a fine way.

PaulF 11-23-2013 02:55 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Yep, big high breakfalls look cool, but they're not.

sakumeikan 11-23-2013 04:56 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Quote:

Jean Hardy wrote: (Post 332521)
Like the other guys said: stop breakfalls. First you do not really have to do it to take ukemi second I do not know your age but believe me ten years from now your body will talk to you and not in a fine way.

Hi Jean,
My body constantly talks to me .It says 'Why are you killing me, you prat'.Trouble is I do not listen , I just consume vast quantities of codeine,ibuprofen and rub eye stinging lotions on my battered physique.Cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan 11-23-2013 04:59 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Quote:

Jean Hardy wrote: (Post 332521)
Like the other guys said: stop breakfalls. First you do not really have to do it to take ukemi second I do not know your age but believe me ten years from now your body will talk to you and not in a fine way.

Dear Jean,
When I touch with my finger anywhere on my body I get shooting pains in whatever area I have touched.I guess I must have broken my index finger? Cheers, Joe

aikijean 11-24-2013 04:03 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Jo, my body talks to me every day specially in the dojo, so to make it quiet a bit I don't do breakfalls anymore but it is too late for me. I do not teach it and encourage younger persons to not do it at all.

Dalaran1991 11-26-2013 02:58 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Hmm, a lot of aikido schools do breakfall exclusively and the students, especially the seniors, seem fine. Maybe I've been doing high fall wrong? Done right it shouldn't cause any trouble.

Anyway I'll stop for a while and see if the situation improves.

Pauliina Lievonen 11-26-2013 03:06 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
How is your hamni? Check that you're not standing and moving around with a very hollow lower back.

Pauliina

fjh 12-04-2013 10:36 AM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
I don't like this continuing trend enabling of lazy ukemi. I've been in this art around 15 years now, and ukemi seems to get worse and worse because of this attitude that "X" isn't necessary. First koshi nage disappeared, then high falls, and now rolling is not even required. Just because "X" takes effortful practice doesn't mean you should give up on it. If someone wants to try improve their ukemi then they should be encouraged.

High falls may not be necessary, but people who don't participate in them are really missing out on a great aiki experience. There is nothing like providing an attack and then ending up facing in the opposite direction on the other side of the mat, wondering what the hell just happened, with a vague recollection of going head over heels through the air at some point.

My guess is the execution was wrong. Either you executed the fall wrong and still need ukemi practice in this area, or nage executed the technique in a way that did not put you in a natural position to take the high fall-or a combination of both. Practice taking high falls with a partner who understands it's a rotating hara that leads to a high fall, not an arm crank. Let them guide you to where the fall begins and take the fall yourself in a way that feels natural to you by feeling your hara rotate. The lower to the mat they can guide you before your hips begin to rotate the better. We call these "roll out rolls" here. You'll end up layed out on the mat like you took a high fall, but you really never leave the ground. Then you can work your way up to a higher fall.

robin_jet_alt 12-04-2013 01:50 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Quote:

Floyd Hagen wrote: (Post 332836)
I don't like this continuing trend enabling of lazy ukemi. I've been in this art around 15 years now, and ukemi seems to get worse and worse because of this attitude that "X" isn't necessary. First koshi nage disappeared, then high falls, and now rolling is not even required. Just because "X" takes effortful practice doesn't mean you should give up on it. If someone wants to try improve their ukemi then they should be encouraged.

High falls may not be necessary, but people who don't participate in them are really missing out on a great aiki experience. There is nothing like providing an attack and then ending up facing in the opposite direction on the other side of the mat, wondering what the hell just happened, with a vague recollection of going head over heels through the air at some point.

My guess is the execution was wrong. Either you executed the fall wrong and still need ukemi practice in this area, or nage executed the technique in a way that did not put you in a natural position to take the high fall-or a combination of both. Practice taking high falls with a partner who understands it's a rotating hara that leads to a high fall, not an arm crank. Let them guide you to where the fall begins and take the fall yourself in a way that feels natural to you by feeling your hara rotate. The lower to the mat they can guide you before your hips begin to rotate the better. We call these "roll out rolls" here. You'll end up layed out on the mat like you took a high fall, but you really never leave the ground. Then you can work your way up to a higher fall.

I agree with this. If you post a video of yourself taking a high fall, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can constructively critique your technique.

Dalaran1991 12-04-2013 05:02 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Quote:

Floyd Hagen wrote: (Post 332836)
I don't like this continuing trend enabling of lazy ukemi. I've been in this art around 15 years now, and ukemi seems to get worse and worse because of this attitude that "X" isn't necessary. First koshi nage disappeared, then high falls, and now rolling is not even required. Just because "X" takes effortful practice doesn't mean you should give up on it. If someone wants to try improve their ukemi then they should be encouraged.

High falls may not be necessary, but people who don't participate in them are really missing out on a great aiki experience. There is nothing like providing an attack and then ending up facing in the opposite direction on the other side of the mat, wondering what the hell just happened, with a vague recollection of going head over heels through the air at some point.

My guess is the execution was wrong. Either you executed the fall wrong and still need ukemi practice in this area, or nage executed the technique in a way that did not put you in a natural position to take the high fall-or a combination of both. Practice taking high falls with a partner who understands it's a rotating hara that leads to a high fall, not an arm crank. Let them guide you to where the fall begins and take the fall yourself in a way that feels natural to you by feeling your hara rotate. The lower to the mat they can guide you before your hips begin to rotate the better. We call these "roll out rolls" here. You'll end up layed out on the mat like you took a high fall, but you really never leave the ground. Then you can work your way up to a higher fall.

Haa!!! So glad to see an aikidoka with some spirit! I would say that the reason I do aikido is partly the high fall. It's the most exhilarating experience you can get on a daily basis without having to pay for a roller coaster ride!

I think you maybe right. Since in our dojo people are so lazy to do high falls they don't even execute a technique that allows a high fall anymore. So on the days when my zealous training partners are absent, I basically have to take a high fall by myself even when nage executes a very soft throw. I guess this is making me land heavily. I'll see if I can take some videos.

Demetrio Cereijo 12-04-2013 05:17 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Sure throwing yourself in the air is fun and exhilarating, but don't confuse this with the real thing.

robin_jet_alt 12-04-2013 07:13 PM

Re: Lower back pain after training
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 332849)
. I'll see if I can take some videos.

In the mean time, check this out. The early exercises are a great way to build up to softer high falls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpBpM38TMg


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