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-   -   Techniques Are Boring (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23119)

Peter Boylan 11-12-2013 05:59 PM

Techniques Are Boring
 
I've been thinking a lot about all the techniques people run around learning, and I find more and more that I'm not interested in learning new techniques. All the new techniques boar me to sleep. I'd much rather study an old technique again and get a better understanding of the principles within it. So I wrote this blog about it.
http://budobum.blogspot.com/2013/11/...re-boring.html

asiawide 11-12-2013 08:36 PM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Quote:

Peter Boylan wrote: (Post 332181)
I've been thinking a lot about all the techniques people run around learning, and I find more and more that I'm not interested in learning new techniques. All the new techniques boar me to sleep. I'd much rather study an old technique again and get a better understanding of the principles within it. So I wrote this blog about it.
http://budobum.blogspot.com/2013/11/...re-boring.html

Thanks for the nice video. Up and Down looks very clearly. This kind of movements are also seen in other arts too and very universal. I think this is the secret atemi that many shihans use. IMHO, the question is how to do it without bending or un-bedning knees.

Janet Rosen 11-12-2013 09:57 PM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Quote:

Jaemin Yu wrote: (Post 332183)
Thanks for the nice video. Up and Down looks very clearly. This kind of movements are also seen in other arts too and very universal. I think this is the secret atemi that many shihans use. IMHO, the question is how to do it without bending or un-bedning knees.

Knees are not a source of power, so just keep knees soft and aligned and don't put your mind in your knees at all.
Seriously, even when simply mechanically going down to the mat, the best single piece of advice I ever got about sparing my bum knee was from the guy in my dojo who has done years of Chinese internal arts: "don't even think about your knees, just soften and open your hips" and damn if I didn't lower all the way to the mat effortlessly. Teach it to my beginners in Low Impact now.
But in terms of the video and your question, it isn't a matter of mechanical knee stuff at all, it's internal organization and structure.

SeiserL 11-13-2013 03:44 PM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Yes agreed.

The more principle centered I become the more I seem to be drawn into the mystery.

Until again,
Lynn

Bill Danosky 11-13-2013 06:31 PM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
I love training techniques. But I am working on a bunch of pretty esoteric stuff right now, and it's driving me a little nuts. We're actually spending valuable training time trying to figure out how to make ushiro waza work, that begin with hojo dosa. If we practiced nothing but ikka jo, shiho nage, hiji shime, ude garami, kote gaeshi and irimi nage, I'd be happy. And jiyu waza every night.

Stephen Nichol 11-13-2013 07:44 PM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
This also rings true for me.

When I first started over many years ago in another style there was the core techniques and then the many variations of them that I started to see were very numerous in total. The differences were slight in some cases and rather large in others... but at that time I was thinking about how cool it will be learn all of these variations.

My life situation changed and I had to stop training there... skip ahead over a decade later and I found my current teacher in Iwama style and I was immediately aware that there was just a few techniques taught over and over with only a slight emphasis on variations. The idea being to drill home the principles within a narrow context of a few techniques and how to demonstrate the principles through the variations should you find your situation changing during a technique and therefor you do not get stuck 'trying to make it work'.

After a few years of study now I am more interested in developing this principles further.. solid foundation through all movement while being able to break the foundation of Uke before contact (by correct movement just before it) or on contact should I not be successful before contact. These are the only two things I focus on now.

Movement and shape. Correct 'shape' in myself and correct movement leads to technique.

Generally when I get those two correct I still have to pause and ask Sensei: "OK, I am here now... and Uke is off balance.. how does that technique actually go?"

And if I did not get Uke off balance on contact/entry into 'the technique'... well, the technique hardly matters at all then does it?

Anjisan 11-14-2013 08:00 AM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
I believe that the more you advance, the more one should be looking to break out of technique. At the minimum, break out of what technique you are going to do in advance of your response, but then eventually attempt to move in or out, left or right and as you blend with their attack and the "technique" that you recognize or possibly one that you do not will appear. You and your Uke will be left wondering what that technique was and can you do it again? If you were truly in the moment-probably not! ;)

sakumeikan 11-14-2013 08:44 AM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Quote:

Bill Danosky wrote: (Post 332204)
I love training techniques. But I am working on a bunch of pretty esoteric stuff right now, and it's driving me a little nuts. We're actually spending valuable training time trying to figure out how to make ushiro waza work, that begin with hojo dosa. If we practiced nothing but ikka jo, shiho nage, hiji shime, ude garami, kote gaeshi and irimi nage, I'd be happy. And jiyu waza every night.

Dear Danovsky Sensei,
I do not practice Yoshinkan.I am not familiar with the term hojo dosa. Personally I see no issues of difficulties from ushiro waza.Perhaps you may care to expand on what the issue is?Maybe a video would give me and others an idea of what you mean?Cheers, Joe.

Kevin Leavitt 11-14-2013 10:30 AM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Peter, once again, you and I seem to have the same thoughts at the same time.

Just last night I had the most unique situation I have probably encountered to date.

I am in Dakar Senegal for a while, and there is no Brazilian Jiu Jitsu here. A long story, but I was able to connect with the local judo community that really wants to learn and incorporate BJJ in their training.

Mostly in the US and Europe I train newbies when introducing BJJ, but in Senegal, it is very, very experienced Judoka. These people are in their mid 30's, 3 and 4 dans, experienced, some that are on the National Team.

their tachi waza and nage waza is decent, but ne waza is not so strong.

I normally teach from a technique based model because this is what young americans and europeans seem to want and respond to.

However with only a few days to work with these experienced judoka and a lack of a common language for me (my French is terrible), I found that it was best to abandon technique and work with them on establishing a new paradigm/methodology for assessing ne waza vice teaching techniques.

So I taught from a very basic foundation and framework, and we built on what they already knew about kuzushi, timing etc. The only change really was the orientation of our practice (ne waza versus tachi waza).

In the senior students that had 20 years of judo, I saw a light bulb go off and then they were able to begin to explore things on their own.

I think (hope) that I gave them more to grow on, than if I would have simply taught a bunch of techniques that they would have forgotten over time.

Thanks for this well written blog post!

wolfpack 11-14-2013 06:56 PM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Bruce Lee once was quoted as saying, ""I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."

lbb 11-15-2013 08:25 AM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
Lists of techniques provide another kind of framework: a more easily accessible one, perhaps. I suppose I'd agree with most commenters that it's also a more limited framework, but there's a reason why "people run around learning" lists of techniques. I think it's a developmental stage that most of us go through, unless you've got a very strict teacher who refuses to let you play that game (and that would be very hard to enforce), and like all developmental stages, it has its uses: some good comes out of it.

Kevin Leavitt 11-15-2013 10:01 AM

Re: Techniques Are Boring
 
I agree Mary. I think it depends on where you are in the process. A technical framework provides the basis for good transmission and communication at a simple level


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