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-   -   YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23101)

akiy 11-05-2013 10:05 AM

YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 


Here is Tsuruzo Miyamoto (7th dan, Aikikai) demonstrating at the 2013 Sportaccord World Combat Games in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

What are your thoughts on his demonstration?

-- Jun

St Matt 11-05-2013 10:42 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
As a casual observer my first thoughts were he looks like he doesn't want to be there!

Russ Q 11-05-2013 11:03 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Very relaxed, gentle with explosive power when he feels...pretty much basic aikikai style demo....he is very nonchalant but this seems to be his style....

Has anyone trained with him...can you chime in?

Cheers,

Russ

Dan Rubin 11-05-2013 11:54 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Uke's balance is taken instantly upon contact and balance is never regained during slow-motion techniques. 10 minutes 13 seconds of kuzushi. Outstanding.

Gerardo Torres 11-05-2013 12:29 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
I like how he seems to be always experimenting and improvising with ways to break the uke's balance; it's very refreshing to see somebody playing with techniques and kuzushi in a public demo like that. That said, I'm not a fan of the passive-aggressive demeanor, but then again perhaps it wouldn't be as interesting without it.

sakumeikan 11-05-2013 04:48 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Russ Qureshi wrote: (Post 331941)
Very relaxed, gentle with explosive power when he feels...pretty much basic aikikai style demo....he is very nonchalant but this seems to be his style....

Has anyone trained with him...can you chime in?

Cheers,

Russ

Hi Russ,
Miyamoto Sensei is a frequent instructor at British Birankai Summer Schools.I have trained with him.He is an excellent teacherand has a wide range of waza.He does a lot of variations in his work.Miyamoto sensei might do one technique then change to another.Note the video show.
He looks nonchalant but his connection and control of uke is excellent.Not a big man, however he uses all is body [he is very flexible ] to good effect against bigger guys.I rate him very highly.As a person , Miyamoto Sensei is quiet , good company, enjoys a beer and can rattle off a good song if required.All in all he is a really great aikidoka and a good friend. Cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan 11-05-2013 04:57 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Matt Bostock wrote: (Post 331940)
As a casual observer my first thoughts were he looks like he doesn't want to be there!

Hi Matt,
Miyamoto Sensei just does his work in a casual sort of way.Just gets the job done,Lets his waza do the talking.I can understand why you think he is not really wanting to be at the event.Its his low key style. You should try and experience working with him.It quite interesting and you get a lot from the encounter .I like his stuff.He visits the U.K and the U.S.A quite a bit,teaching at Birankai International events.I have quite a bit of video footage of him.
Cheers, Joe.

oisin bourke 11-06-2013 02:40 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 331955)
Hi Russ,
Miyamoto Sensei is a frequent instructor at British Birankai Summer Schools.I have trained with him.He is an excellent teacherand has a wide range of waza.He does a lot of variations in his work.Miyamoto sensei might do one technique then change to another.Note the video show.
He looks nonchalant but his connection and control of uke is excellent.Not a big man, however he uses all is body [he is very flexible ] to good effect against bigger guys.I rate him very highly.As a person , Miyamoto Sensei is quiet , good company, enjoys a beer and can rattle off a good song if required.All in all he is a really great aikidoka and a good friend. Cheers, Joe.

Miyamoto Sensei also looks (to me) as if he was influenced by Arisawa sensei. Do you (or anyone else) know if he was?

Keith Larman 11-06-2013 03:16 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Gerardo Torres wrote: (Post 331946)
That said, I'm not a fan of the passive-aggressive demeanor, but then again perhaps it wouldn't be as interesting without it.

I am puzzled by comments like this (and others in this thread about "nonchalance", etc.). How is his demeanor as evidenced in the video passive-aggressive? FWIW I don't know the man, but what I see is a very focused, intense, and apparently not easily flustered person completely in the moment. Frankly I find it refreshing to see someone work "professionally" in a sense without all the stereotypical grimacing, etc.

Anyway, apart from all of that, I rather enjoyed watching him "do his thing". And while the attacks, etc. were clearly for demonstration purposes (meaning not just some wild attack), it seems as though he's quite able and willing to improvise even in front of a large crowd. And I saw a thing or twelve I'd love to steal... ;)

ryback 11-06-2013 03:30 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
I see no posture, I see no balance, I see no connection, I see no...aikido. Unnecessary little moves to regain balance,no control over uke, even though the attacks are ridiculous.
At one instance, after ha has disarmed the bokken, the way he holds it would have cut his hand completely if it was a real sword and it's supposed to be real.
Zanshin? Maai?Concentration?Nothing. The way he walks in between techniques looks like he is drunk or half asleep.
No warrior spirit whatsoever. No wonder why people misunderstand aikido after this kind of demos!

sakumeikan 11-06-2013 06:01 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Yannis Mousoulis wrote: (Post 331991)
I see no posture, I see no balance, I see no connection, I see no...aikido. Unnecessary little moves to regain balance,no control over uke, even though the attacks are ridiculous.
At one instance, after ha has disarmed the bokken, the way he holds it would have cut his hand completely if it was a real sword and it's supposed to be real.
Zanshin? Maai?Concentration?Nothing. The way he walks in between techniques looks like he is drunk or half asleep.
No warrior spirit whatsoever. No wonder why people misunderstand aikido after this kind of demos!

Dear Yannis,
While I appreciate that you have expressed you viewpoints which clearly are diametrically the opposite of my own ,I welcome your words. Can I ask you this question have your ever met or trained with Miyamoto Sensei? As someone who knows Miyamoto Sensei over a period of years, I can testify that Miyamoto Sensei certainly does not lack the qualities which you suggest he does not have eg Zanshin, Maai etc.I personally wish I had a some of his skllls. As a parting suggestion from myself ,assuming you have never met Miyamoto Sensei, why not have a practice with him?Maybe you would change your mind about his work?Cheers, Joe

sakumeikan 11-06-2013 06:04 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Oisin Bourke wrote: (Post 331988)
Miyamoto Sensei also looks (to me) as if he was influenced by Arisawa sensei. Do you (or anyone else) know if he was?

Dear Oisin,
Do you mean Arikawa Sensei?? Joe.

Adam Huss 11-06-2013 06:37 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
I very much appreciate seeing this type of aikido.

Janet Rosen 11-06-2013 07:09 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Keith Larman wrote: (Post 331989)
I am puzzled by comments like this (and others in this thread about "nonchalance", etc.). How is his demeanor as evidenced in the video passive-aggressive? FWIW I don't know the man, but what I see is a very focused, intense, and apparently not easily flustered person completely in the moment. Frankly I find it refreshing to see someone work "professionally" in a sense without all the stereotypical grimacing, etc.

Anyway, apart from all of that, I rather enjoyed watching him "do his thing". And while the attacks, etc. were clearly for demonstration purposes (meaning not just some wild attack), it seems as though he's quite able and willing to improvise even in front of a large crowd. And I saw a thing or twelve I'd love to steal... ;)

Pretty much how I felt. Nice getting the job done demo.

ryback 11-06-2013 10:25 PM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 331993)
Dear Yannis,
While I appreciate that you have expressed you viewpoints which clearly are diametrically the opposite of my own ,I welcome your words. Can I ask you this question have your ever met or trained with Miyamoto Sensei? As someone who knows Miyamoto Sensei over a period of years, I can testify that Miyamoto Sensei certainly does not lack the qualities which you suggest he does not have eg Zanshin, Maai etc.I personally wish I had a some of his skllls. As a parting suggestion from myself ,assuming you have never met Miyamoto Sensei, why not have a practice with him?Maybe you would change your mind about his work?Cheers, Joe

Dear Joe.
I appreciate the way that you respect my opinion and believe me, I respect yours even more since you have personal experience with this teacher.
My comments were not about him generally but what I got from that specific video, again filtered through my experience and perception of aikido.
Off course, you can't judge anyone through a mere video and if you don't feel the technique on your body you can't actually know.
On the other hand, since the video was on and everyone was telling their opinion, I thought I'd share mine whether positive or negative, so I did.
But a taste of his technique on me could possibly change my mind since nothing compares to personal experience...

oisin bourke 11-07-2013 12:26 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 331994)
Dear Oisin,
Do you mean Arikawa Sensei?? Joe.

My mistake. Yes, I do.

sakumeikan 11-07-2013 02:31 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Yannis Mousoulis wrote: (Post 332000)
Dear Joe.
I appreciate the way that you respect my opinion and believe me, I respect yours even more since you have personal experience with this teacher.
My comments were not about him generally but what I got from that specific video, again filtered through my experience and perception of aikido.
Off course, you can't judge anyone through a mere video and if you don't feel the technique on your body you can't actually know.
On the other hand, since the video was on and everyone was telling their opinion, I thought I'd share mine whether positive or negative, so I did.
But a taste of his technique on me could possibly change my mind since nothing compares to personal experience...

Hi Yannis,
I have no problem if anyone has a different viewpoint from myself.You expressed what you thought of the video.I respect you for calling it as you perceive it.No problems here.
As you say, you cannot always tell or judge somebody by a video, especially on a demo.
I am sure if you met Miyamoto Sensei and trained with him you would more than likely come away from the encounter with a different 'take' on his work.
By the way, are you the gent on facebook who ssems to like fashionable gear?Do you live in Athens? Do you know Jenny Flower/Matt Teale/Ari Sinavellis?? Cheers, Joe

MRoh 11-07-2013 02:33 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Yannis Mousoulis wrote: (Post 332000)
But a taste of his technique on me could possibly change my mind since nothing compares to personal experience...

It certainly would.
I can affirm that contact and control about uke is existing in his Aikido from the first moment you touch him.

What looks somehow heavy feels very light, and taking ukemi for him is challenging.

Walter Martindale 11-07-2013 04:58 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Hmmm... I see someone who's very skilled doing a bit of "here we go again with another demo". Lively at times, but getting tired. We all get old. Watching him at moments I thought - hmm. I think that he'd rather have his feet up and a cup of o-cha handy. Great aikido IMO but he's tired.... Short bursts of energy, then pushing his leg to help get up (I do that when my hip is bothering me). Sure would be interested in seeing this man moving when younger.

Ellis Amdur 11-07-2013 05:32 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
I haven't seen him in thirty five years - we used to train together sometimes at the Aikikai. He has changed quite a bit. He used to start tense and get tenser, kind of crashing his way through techniques. He's gotten much more relaxed, physically, at least, in a good sense.
Ellis Amdur

MRoh 11-07-2013 06:00 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Walter Martindale wrote: (Post 332012)
Great aikido IMO but he's tired....

One can get this feeling, but when he teaches a class he is working as hard as all the students, I saw him this summer a whole week and he was full of power.

Alex Megann 11-07-2013 06:20 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
I enjoyed the demonstration - in my opinion this is very good aikido. Good connection and plenty of power, but no brutality. I see someone at the peak of his powers (apart from that knee, of course), and he does indeed look markedly more relaxed in his execution than I have seen him in the past. I have noticed this apparently distracted manner in demonstrations by other senior shihan - at times he looks as if he is distracted by the audience, and at others he seems to be simply taking his time. I can imagine that some might feel that his turning his back on his ukes for several seconds could be seen as setting a bad example for zanshin, though.

It's interesting to contrast this demo with the other one being currently discussed here by Christian Tissier. Miyazawa Sensei's demonstration was spontaneous and personal, showing insights into his own interpretation of aikido. Tissier Sensei's demonstration gives a strong impression of being very similar to every other demonstration he does (I feel the same way about the ones I have seen by the current Doshu), and I can imagine him consciously developing his demonstrations over the years. Both Tissier and Doshu have (in their different ways) very clean, repeatable techniques, and I think they both want to show this in their demonstrations, where Miyazawa seems to have different prioritiies.

Alex

Keith Larman 11-07-2013 07:28 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
You know, it's funny. I can honestly say that just 10 years ago I probably would have been grousing about some stuff. But now with a bad back, bad knee, etc. I see some things I probably do myself. I also recognize that my Aikido, even on my best days, isn't as clean as I'd like, especially if my uke is really putting it out there for me. Sometimes I don't handle the incoming energy as well as I'd like, sometimes I"m not as clean as I'd like. But any day of the week I'd rather they push me to that point so I can practice as contrasted with the other style of demonstration that emphasizes the smooth, clean, perfect (but ritualized and artificial) matching up of a "perfect" technique with an uke trying to blend completely with you and help you "look good". I get quite tired of "perfect sensei powers" when demonstrating in front of a class. Uke knows you're trying to demonstrate a technique so we get up there and do those amazing things minus the warts, bobbles, and misses. He comes yokomen with perfect form to allow me to do my technique with perfect form. Any loss of connection, timing, whatever is masked by perfectly compliant practice. Yeah, it looks good, and you can speed up, make it look even more spectacular, make it even more amazing. And yes, it has value, it shows the Platonic Form of the perfect technique, if you will. And I love watching it myself. But I can *certainly* respect seeing a video like this with an uke attacking with a bit more power at times. With more of the bumpy, textured parts of life, aging, and non-idealized reality peeking through. Yeah, nowadays I often stand with a little help of my arms because of a bad knee, sore hips, and spine damaged by a congenital defect, age and self--inflicted injury. I can see my future when I watch videos like this and to be quite honest I hope I will look that good.

I suppose my point is that anyone with a goodly amount of experience in doing demonstrations can put on a pretty demo. And while I enjoy those sorts of demos as well, the longer I do this myself the more I realize that the demo of that sort (which has its own intrinsic value) isn't about what I'm hoping to learn in Aikido. This demo is more about what I find valuable. And I hope I have the integrity and fortitude (and capability) to demonstrate it that way when I'm his age... Hell, I hope I'm still able to get up off the mat even after tossing someone else.

sakumeikan 11-07-2013 08:13 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Alex Megann wrote: (Post 332016)
I enjoyed the demonstration - in my opinion this is very good aikido. Good connection and plenty of power, but no brutality. I see someone at the peak of his powers (apart from that knee, of course), and he does indeed look markedly more relaxed in his execution than I have seen him in the past. I have noticed this apparently distracted manner in demonstrations by other senior shihan - at times he looks as if he is distracted by the audience, and at others he seems to be simply taking his time. I can imagine that some might feel that his turning his back on his ukes for several seconds could be seen as setting a bad example for zanshin, though.

It's interesting to contrast this demo with the other one being currently discussed here by Christian Tissier. Miyazawa Sensei's demonstration was spontaneous and personal, showing insights into his own interpretation of aikido. Tissier Sensei's demonstration gives a strong impression of being very similar to every other demonstration he does (I feel the same way about the ones I have seen by the current Doshu), and I can imagine him consciously developing his demonstrations over the years. Both Tissier and Doshu have (in their different ways) very clean, repeatable techniques, and I think they both want to show this in their demonstrations, where Miyazawa seems to have different prioritiies.

Alex

Alex,
Hi old buddy, have you got the names mixed up? Miyazawa/Miyamoto Sensei???I agree that Doshu /Tissier Sensei seem to show the same stuff each time.Ok if you like this stuff.Me , I like a
bit of fire in demos.Some one like Tada Sensei for example.Still explosive after all the years.
Hope you are wel, cheers, Joe.

Alex Megann 11-07-2013 09:31 AM

Re: YouTube: Tsuruzo Miyamoto at 2013 World Combat Games
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 332022)
Alex,
Hi old buddy, have you got the names mixed up? Miyazawa/Miyamoto Sensei???I agree that Doshu /Tissier Sensei seem to show the same stuff each time.Ok if you like this stuff.Me , I like a
bit of fire in demos.Some one like Tada Sensei for example.Still explosive after all the years.
Hope you are wel, cheers, Joe.

That serves me right for posting while hungry…

Yes, the late Miyazawa Sensei was someone else entirely - he was a friend of Kanetsuka Sensei and visited the UK quite regularly, though he lived in Argentina. I went to a very nice class in London a few years ago where he was teaching swordwork.

Here is an interview with Miyazawa Sensei published in Aikido Journal.

Alex


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