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-   -   Aikido spear- Aikiso (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22937)

ChrisHein 08-31-2013 12:14 PM

Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Enjoy-
Explanation: http://www.aikidostudent.com/ASCv2/?p=122

Suburi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9Zp9UsrA0

Kumiso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TGrVMUKMU

Michael Hackett 08-31-2013 02:58 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Chris,

I don't know the yari at all, but your mawashi burai demonstration shows clearly that you know what you are doing with a jo. Well done.

Dazaifoo 08-31-2013 06:34 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Looks good!
What length of yari do you use for practice?

ChrisHein 09-01-2013 02:03 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Thanks Michael.
Scott, It's around 54".

Leonaiki 09-20-2013 12:33 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Good work indeed.

It is slowly coming to public knowledge that the jo is not a wooden stick but a yari - Ueshiba sensei's version at least.

How do you link that practice of spear and taijutsu ?

best
L

ChrisHein 09-23-2013 11:28 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Leon Bournazel wrote: (Post 330028)

How do you link that practice of spear and taijutsu ?

best
L

It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to answer this question. I really don't see a difference between weapon work and Taijutsu. I think, many people say "taijutsu" and mean a kind of karate (empty hand techniques). I don't really understand taijutsu this way. I understand taijutsu to mean: body skills. The body may or may not have a weapon attached to it.

Specific weapon skills- Kenjutsu, Jojutsu, Sojutsu etc teach how you can best use your body to interact with that specific weapon. While taijutsu teaches how you use your body overall. Any weapon system that is part of a larger taijutsu system, must have the same body use skills- same taijutsu, if that system has any continuity.

So, I would say the two (my taijutsu, and sojutsu) are linked in every way. The sojutsu is an extension of my taijutsu.

sakumeikan 09-23-2013 01:58 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 329545)
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Enjoy-
Explanation: http://www.aikidostudent.com/ASCv2/?p=122

Suburi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9Zp9UsrA0

Kumiso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TGrVMUKMU

Dear Hein Sensei,
Thank you for posting the vids.I found them interesting.Nevertheless the forms shown bear little resemblance to the forms Jo work that I study.Unfortunately despite my having a wealth of ken/jo video material I do not know how to post such material on the Net.For example the forms called Sansho one , Two and Three are available on Youtube I believe.Worth a look I would suggest, Cheers, Joe

ChrisHein 09-23-2013 02:35 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 330094)
Dear Hein Sensei,
Thank you for posting the vids.I found them interesting.Nevertheless the forms shown bear little resemblance to the forms Jo work that I study.Unfortunately despite my having a wealth of ken/jo video material I do not know how to post such material on the Net.For example the forms called Sansho one , Two and Three are available on Youtube I believe.Worth a look I would suggest, Cheers, Joe

I watched the videos on youtube- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UXyRRiDANI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqbZAGu7q0U

I liked them. To me the material presented in those videos is very similar to the material shown in the Kumiso. What do you mean by "bears little resemblance"? They are not the same forms, but most (if not all) of the same body ideas, movements, and principles are the same. Do you not find this to be true?

To me, the Sansho videos show the same basic ideas of Aikido "stick" work as most of the other Aikido styles I've looked at. Do you not find this to be true?

Riai Maori 02-08-2014 01:17 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 329545)
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Nice display. Have a look here www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNq4_RrUrg

This is a traditional spear art my ancestors (Maori) used to fight the enemy and is still taught today. The name of the weapon is called a Tiaha and they vary in length. One end is shaped as a club while the other end has a point for spearing. The feathers at the pointed end are for visual distraction while you get whacked with the club end.:)

ChrisHein 02-09-2014 12:49 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
That was a really great video! Thanks!

ravenest 03-15-2014 02:21 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 329545)
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Enjoy-
Explanation: http://www.aikidostudent.com/ASCv2/?p=122

Suburi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9Zp9UsrA0

Kumiso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TGrVMUKMU

Excellent ! Thankyou ! All these years I wanted to learn Yari and didnt think I would be able to find a teacher where I live .... yet I have done a fair bit of Jo ... in Aikido and an Okinawan form. It sure makes sense ( I am one to ask a lot of 'annoying questions' .... like; why those seemingly unnecessary 'twirls' and end changes with the Jo ) .

next training session with my Okinawan style teacher ( who doesnt mind a bit of 'innovation') I will suggest the idea ( as his Jo forms actually came from an Aikido guy years back ;) ,....

ravenest 03-15-2014 02:31 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Richard Campbell wrote: (Post 335085)
Nice display. Have a look here www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNq4_RrUrg

This is a traditional spear art my ancestors (Maori) used to fight the enemy and is still taught today. The name of the weapon is called a Tiaha and they vary in length. One end is shaped as a club while the other end has a point for spearing. The feathers at the pointed end are for visual distraction while you get whacked with the club end.:)

Thank you too . I have seen a bit before ( travelled NZ yeeeeaaaars ago ).

One time this Maori guy saw us training kobudo in the park here (with Eku ) he really took a second take at it .... also the Samoan guy that lives near by (he has the full leg tattoos happening ) was checking us out.

Indigenous Martial Arts - love it ! There are some here but most are secret and initiated mens knowledge ... however , relatively recently Careeda has become public. Good stuff, good for culture and the young fellas

.http://www.coreedaoz.com/main/page_faq.html

Keep up the good work, great stuff !

ravenest 03-15-2014 02:45 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Also this :

Quote:

Richard Campbell wrote: (Post 335085)
. One end is shaped as a club while the other end has a point for spearing.

I also wanted to learn an Okinawan form with a similar dual natured ended weapon, but its not in my teachers repertoire :(

A small turtle shell shield and a shaft with spear point one end and a club (sometimes a lump of coral) on the other).

http://www.allstars.net.au/weapons.html#rochen


NagaBaba 03-16-2014 11:45 AM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
If I was you, I would rather stick very close with jodo, there are some strong teachers around. Jodo teach well martial principles and correct use of the body when working with weapons.

ravenest 03-18-2014 11:50 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Szczepan Janczuk wrote: (Post 335878)
If I was you, I would rather stick very close with jodo, there are some strong teachers around. Jodo teach well martial principles and correct use of the body when working with weapons.

Yes I see the value of that ( could be seen as the 'mother' ) especially for single, longer shaft weapons ... I do kobudo so train in multiple weapons.

- not many teachers where I live ... out in the country.

Rupert Atkinson 03-23-2014 02:37 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Nice vids. Well done :-)

Michael Douglas 04-12-2014 12:38 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
I didn't watch the linked videos, but I did read the comments : a lot of them recommending Jo work.
In my opinion ... for effective (and I mean real effective) use of a SPEAR ... if you ever (EVER!) turn it around and use the wrong end : you're a complete idiot, or just messing about.
Spear is completely and utterly different to a stick. Deal with it.

hughrbeyer 04-13-2014 10:27 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
So bashing someone with the butt of a jo works, but not with the butt of a spear? Good to know.

And hitting them with the butt of your sword would be, of course, unthinkable.

Riai Maori 04-14-2014 12:59 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Michael Douglas wrote: (Post 336319)
I didn't watch the linked videos, but I did read the comments : a lot of them recommending Jo work.
In my opinion ... for effective (and I mean real effective) use of a SPEAR ... if you ever (EVER!) turn it around and use the wrong end : you're a complete idiot, or just messing about.
Spear is completely and utterly different to a stick. Deal with it.

How can you make an inaccurate comment without watching the Video's. there are many spears that have a club end. OPEN YOUR EYES and DEAL with THAT!!!!!:grr:

lbb 04-14-2014 01:30 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Aren't you people overreacting just a wee trifle? Of course you can use the butt end of a spear as a staff, but unless you're being completely disingenuous and looking to pick a fight, you'll have to admit that a spear also has a "business end". And, if you are being completely disingenuous and looking to pick a fight, maybe you should go back to bed, have a nice nap, and get up on the right side this time.

Keith Larman 04-14-2014 02:47 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Michael Douglas wrote: (Post 336319)
I didn't watch the linked videos, but I did read the comments : a lot of them recommending Jo work.
In my opinion ... for effective (and I mean real effective) use of a SPEAR ... if you ever (EVER!) turn it around and use the wrong end : you're a complete idiot, or just messing about.
Spear is completely and utterly different to a stick. Deal with it.

Wow. I mean, really, wow. You're basing that on what? Do you know what the thing is on the end of a yari haft? It's called an ishizuki. I've seen a huge number of antique ishizuki and they were *clearly* not just decoration. One of these days you might want to get out and look at a few antique ishizuki and I think you might want to revise your opinion. Often made of iron and often with a point as well to reduce the impact area to a very small point, they were well regarded as impact weapons in their own right. Some are downright vicious looking and one could easily fracture a skull.

Keith Larman 04-14-2014 02:56 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
1 Attachment(s)
Maybe this will help...

Keith Larman 04-14-2014 03:15 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
And when there is more than one attacker... Like someone behind you...

The point for me is that it isn't an issue of obviously the yari itself (or naginata for that matter) being the bladed end, but in most styles I've seen they rather actively train on using both ends of the haft. Which is why there's an ishizuki in the first place and such a huge variety of styles depending on ryu/regional style/etc. Color me puzzled...

And yes, some styles of swordsmanship also have strikes with the kashira. And there are a few rather rare types of kashira with "pointy bits" ostensibly for that very purpose. But it's no where near as common as in yari work in particular.

And for that matter you should see the incredible variety of styles of yari which also impact how they're used. You're not going to use a tanpo yari the same as a jumanji yari or a kagigata. And if you want to talk absolutely vicious look up futamata yari.

And on the point of regional differences, the kagi yari also has an iron "sword catcher" about a foot down the haft from the yari blade itself. The applications of the weapon are going to be clearly different.

phitruong 04-14-2014 08:03 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Keith Larman wrote: (Post 336338)
Maybe this will help...

you know, if you give the swiss army a chance, they might be able to pack all of that into one. :)

Riai Maori 04-14-2014 08:37 PM

Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 336340)
you know, if you give the swiss army a chance, they might be able to pack all of that into one. :)

Too much! Can't stop laughing:D


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