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-   -   Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22424)

hughrbeyer 03-05-2013 01:58 PM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Alex Megann wrote: (Post 324254)
...One example that springs to mind is how the kesa-giri of Kashima Shinryu profoundly influenced Yamaguchi Sensei's aikido (and that of his students).

What's your source for this? Say more. As a student of one of his students, I want to know more. :)

Robert Cowham 03-05-2013 02:32 PM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Hugh Beyer wrote: (Post 324280)
What's your source for this? Say more. As a student of one of his students, I want to know more. :)

Have you seen this clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GBuNOrE6WY

hughrbeyer 03-05-2013 08:49 PM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Robert Cowham wrote: (Post 324284)

Yup, and it's a keeper. But it doesn't answer my questions about Yamaguchi's own sword training.

Peter Goldsbury 03-05-2013 09:51 PM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Hugh Beyer wrote: (Post 324280)
What's your source for this? Say more. As a student of one of his students, I want to know more. :)

I am not Alex, but I can give some answer.

Yamaguchi Sensei regularly visited Hiroshima and I once asked him where he learned his sword, which sword school he attended. He answered that he did not attend any school. He watched others and 'stole' their knowledge. One of these others was most certainly Inaba Minoru of the Shiseikan Dojo at the Meiji Shrine. Mr Inaba trained at the Aikikai Hombu and was taught by Yamaguchi Sensei and he also trained for a while with Kunii Zenya of Kashima Shinryu. Inaba-shi also trained at Yamaguchi Sensei's private dojo on the recommendation of one Shimada Kazushige. Two others known to me also trained under Yamaguchi Sensei's tutelage and also practised the type of swordwork Alex refers to. One is Christian Tissier and the other was M Sekiya, who lived in the UK for a while.

Best wishes

Alex Megann 03-06-2013 01:28 AM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: (Post 324302)
I am not Alex, but I can give some answer.

Yamaguchi Sensei regularly visited Hiroshima and I once asked him where he learned his sword, which sword school he attended. He answered that he did not attend any school. He watched others and 'stole' their knowledge. One of these others was most certainly Inaba Minoru of the Shiseikan Dojo at the Meiji Shrine. Mr Inaba trained at the Aikikai Hombu and was taught by Yamaguchi Sensei and he also trained for a while with Kunii Zenya of Kashima Shinryu. Inaba-shi also trained at Yamaguchi Sensei's private dojo on the recommendation of one Shimada Kazushige. Two others known to me also trained under Yamaguchi Sensei's tutelage and also practised the type of swordwork Alex refers to. One is Christian Tissier and the other was M Sekiya, who lived in the UK for a while.

Best wishes

The Kashima Shinryu swordwork seems to be very much associated with the Yamaguchi "school", even if he himself never studied it formally. I went to a summer school in Belgium in the late 1980s with Yasuno Shihan from the Hombu Dojo, whom I knew to have been a student of Yamaguchi Sensei. We spent half an hour or so practising bokken kesagiri (the ichi-no-dachi of the Kashima kihon-dachi), which seemed rather unfamiliar to many of those in the class.

Alex

Peter Goldsbury 03-06-2013 01:43 AM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Alex Megann wrote: (Post 324310)
The Kashima Shinryu swordwork seems to be very much associated with the Yamaguchi "school", even if he himself never studied it formally. I went to a summer school in Belgium in the late 1980s with Yasuno Shihan from the Hombu Dojo, whom I knew to have been a student of Yamaguchi Sensei. We spent half an hour or so practising bokken kesagiri (the ichi-no-dachi of the Kashima kihon-dachi), which seemed rather unfamiliar to many of those in the class.

Alex

Absolutely. It was Mr Sekiya who taught Kanetsuka Shihan those basic sword moves at Ryushinkan. I was a Ryushinkan member at the time and such practice was usually done at lunchtime. Old students like David Helsby still practice them. Yasuno Shihan had a close relationship with YS and married into the Yamaguchi family. When I stated that he never studied it formally, I mean that he never enrolled as a student of Kunii Zenya.

PAG

Carsten Möllering 03-06-2013 04:28 AM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: (Post 324311)
When I stated that he never studied it formally, I mean that he never enrolled as a student of Kunii Zenya.

He had the skills to just "incorporate or assimilate" it, as Christian Tissier once said to me.

Alex Megann 03-06-2013 10:07 AM

Re: The Empty Body
 
Quote:

Robert Cowham wrote: (Post 324284)

That's beautiful. It really confirms how Yamaguchi's swordwork was completely at one with his tai-jutsu.

Alex

sakumeikan 03-06-2013 12:06 PM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
Dear Alex,
Yamaguchi Sensei was a really nice man, so unassuming.
I always liked his style and I also liked Sekiya Sensei, another gentleman. His swordwork was beautiful to watch.
Hope yo u are well, Cheers, Joe.

Alex Megann 03-06-2013 01:11 PM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 324334)
Dear Alex,
Yamaguchi Sensei was a really nice man, so unassuming.
I always liked his style and I also liked Sekiya Sensei, another gentleman. His swordwork was beautiful to watch.
Hope yo u are well, Cheers, Joe.

Hi Joe,

I didn't have much exposure to Sekiya Sensei - I think I started practising at around the time he moved back to Japan. I enjoyed a day he taught in London during a brief visit a few years later, and KS invited him to lead a BAF Summer School in the early nineties, though he wasn't very active by then and didn't teach much.

My memories of Yamaguchi Sensei are much more vivid, with his visits to Oxford in the mid 1980s.

Alex

Peter Goldsbury 03-06-2013 04:54 PM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
Quote:

Alex Megann wrote: (Post 324335)
Hi Joe,

I didn't have much exposure to Sekiya Sensei - I think I started practising at around the time he moved back to Japan. I enjoyed a day he taught in London during a brief visit a few years later, and KS invited him to lead a BAF Summer School in the early nineties, though he wasn't very active by then and didn't teach much.

My memories of Yamaguchi Sensei are much more vivid, with his visits to Oxford in the mid 1980s.

Alex

Hello Alex,

Mr Sekiya was very good. When he was in the UK, I was his otomo and often took ukemi. When I came to Japan and experienced Yamaguchi Sensei's aikido, quite a few things fell into place. YS came to Hiroshima for regular weekend seminars and I attended these for many years, in fact until he passed away. I often took ukemi for YS and, as I say, things fell into place. I also once took ukemi for Inaba Minoru and the experience was similar in many ways. But there was a sharpness, a raw edge, with Mr Inaba's aikido that was not present in that of YS.

It is unfortunate that SS and YS had a falling out, but for a few years before he died, SS trained at the Shiseikan dojo.

Best wishes,

Robert A. Wilkins 03-14-2013 05:33 PM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
Hugh,

Ask Gleason Shihan about Noguchi Sensei.

Robert Cowham 03-27-2013 03:47 PM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
I asked Inaba sensei a bit about this earlier today (lucky me!).

He said that Noguchi sensei was a fellow student of Yamaguchi sensei and also was more present in YS's dojo - meaning he was there for more years and also spent some of that time teaching or at least regularly substituting on YS's behalf. Noguchi sensei studied with Kunii sensei for a little less than Inaba sensei, but also had the direct transmission.

Inaba sensei continued to study aikido with Yamaguchi sensei, and teaches it alongside the Kashima no Tachi as in his view the need for relaxation alongside the sharpness and focus of the sword is totally necessary.

Sekiya sensei took the decision at the age of 70 to study with Inaba sensei at the Shiseikan - quite a statement of recognition given his age and experience. Was discussing earlier with Paul Smith and SS apparently said his body got better after 70 from that study. I think that SS influenced IS to "open up" to westerners more - for which people such as myself are a direct beneficiary and very grateful!

Robert A. Wilkins 06-18-2013 01:57 PM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
Quote:

Robert Cowham wrote: (Post 325130)
I asked Inaba sensei a bit about this earlier today (lucky me!).

He said that Noguchi sensei was a fellow student of Yamaguchi sensei and also was more present in YS's dojo - meaning he was there for more years and also spent some of that time teaching or at least regularly substituting on YS's behalf. Noguchi sensei studied with Kunii sensei for a little less than Inaba sensei, but also had the direct transmission.

Inaba sensei continued to study aikido with Yamaguchi sensei, and teaches it alongside the Kashima no Tachi as in his view the need for relaxation alongside the sharpness and focus of the sword is totally necessary.

Sekiya sensei took the decision at the age of 70 to study with Inaba sensei at the Shiseikan - quite a statement of recognition given his age and experience. Was discussing earlier with Paul Smith and SS apparently said his body got better after 70 from that study. I think that SS influenced IS to "open up" to westerners more - for which people such as myself are a direct beneficiary and very grateful!

When I asked Gleason Sensei about this he told me that Noguchi Sensei would teach sword informally before Yamaguchi Sensei would begin to teach

Gleason Sensei also told me that Inaba Sensei would train there sometimes as well, but trained separately from Noguchi Sensei

These's some super 8 footage of Noguchi Sensei performing the Kihon Dachi and Ura Dachi katas included on Gleason Sensei's dvd On it you can see the strength and sharpness of Noguchi Sensei's technique

Robert A. Wilkins 07-08-2013 08:39 AM

Re: Kashima Shinryu and Yamaguchi Seigo
 
The mysterious, the elusive Noguchi Sensei.

Rupert Atkinson 07-11-2013 05:19 AM

Re: The Empty Body
 
I learned some Kashima Shinryu from Kanetsuka Sensei and Ezra Sensei in the 1980s too and still do it today - I feel it really matches well with Aikido. When I went to Japan I trained in Shiseikan for a year at some point and they did it too so it was quite fortunate. I have been doing it by myself ever since. However, I remember a senior sensei (Omura Hiroaki) in Japan criticising my shihonage once when I was doing it kesa-giri style - he spotted it instantly and said, No - do it like shomen-uchi !


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