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-   -   Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22338)

Dan Richards 02-18-2013 08:55 AM

Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
I've got a video on - what I'm calling - the Disc. Here's an idea of an overview of the disc.
http://static.zenimax.com/bethblog/o...t-Disc_web.jpg

The outside circle is created by finding your natural hip rotation. The inside circle (with the black line on the CD) is created by finding your sacral rotation. The disc should be thin - say, less than 1/4" thick.

Between the disc and the skin, your body will show you everything you need to know in terms of proper alignment. This "kit" really only has three parts:

1. Skin is Structure
2. The Disc
3. The Cones (decoupling) - points on the feet. (later the fingers)

And that's it.

I also mention a bit about the use of "decoupling" with points on the feet - could be toes - and sometimes the heel - to drain and discharging energy from the body. Basically, getting the unwanted energy "flushed" rapidly by creating a vortex to a point on the ground.

Once we've created the disc, and have a mental and feeling image of it, then we begin to move it. I cover that in the video. And comments or questions are welcome, as this in a work-in-progress, and the input here is showing me how to better communicate these concepts. Cheers....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrdrLmbze6k

Dan Richards 02-18-2013 09:26 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
While this is getting formulated and tightened up, if anyone is interested and wants to do a Skype video call, I'd love to work with you on this. Email me at dan@dr.com - SIS in the subject line. Thx

Dan Richards 02-18-2013 10:12 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
I can't edit this topic, but I've uploaded another version of the video that shows my feet in the frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks6TVWloGUM

sakumeikan 02-18-2013 04:18 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323679)
I can't edit this topic, but I've uploaded another version of the video that shows my feet in the frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks6TVWloGUM

Dear Dan ,
The heels, from what you do in your video are a pivotal points ,Sorry I cannot fathom your assertion that the heels are decoupling points.By the way, your method of turning and the use of the heels to pivot is Chinese based.In the Aikido that I have be involved in I have seen little usage of the heel in movement as demonstrated by you in your vid in aikido tai sabaki such as Tenkan, Irimi Tenkan, Shiho giri etc.Cheers, Joe

graham christian 02-18-2013 04:45 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
hI Dan, just wondering where the term 'cones' comes from. Is it your personal terminology or from some internal art?

Peace.G.

Dan Richards 02-18-2013 05:08 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Hey Joe, there is a pivotal point on the heel. Not the heel pad, but an actual point. I like the term pivotal point - because it demonstrates that point as a "drain." If was tried to turn on our heel pads...we'd just get mush...and most likely just get stuck and stop. The energy would not drain down faster than it's rising in the heel. But with a point - it drains the energy - which creates power - directed, transformed energy.

Plus, look at Ueshiba's heels at :40 Nuff said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoDK3XuvZWw
Also notice he uses a single point on the outside of the ball on his left foot.

Here's the difference of turning on the heel pad vs turning on a point: The heel when pressed into the pad, actually couples the heel with the leg and the energy in the leg. The energy is not used. Contrast that with moving the energy to as, as you call it, the "pivotal point" - that point - decouples the heel from the leg - and that point creates a vortex drain for the energy - transforming the energy into power. And in fact, it's that point that is the lead for the power.

I can tell you there is heel work in aikido - even if the movements are very small. Aikido is more Chinese than you might think. It may not be taught at the level of "shu" in most of the schools, but by the time you get to "ha" and certainly "ri" and start truly creating your own aikido, everything has to be examined, and nothing can be ruled out.

Also, the need to Create the Disc is going to have people moving in ways they may not have done in their formal training in aikido classes. Most aikidoists really have no clue how to move like that. Most people training and teaching aikido aren't doing aikido. But people are waking up.

Thanks for jumping in and giving me something to chew on towards tweaking the presentation. Cheers...

Dan Richards 02-18-2013 05:12 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Graham Christian wrote: (Post 323696)
hI Dan, just wondering where the term 'cones' comes from. Is it your personal terminology or from some internal art?

Peace.G.

Hi Graham, it's my term, and I got it from the world of acoustics and mechanical design, as cones are used to decouple and reduce vibrations in all kinds of things from drums, to speakers, to engines. They act as energy drain channels to flush out unwanted resonance - which is a build of unwanted energy. The points are the negative leads that create energy vortexes - which are then transformed into directed power.

All of this is my own terminology as applied to body, movement, and power. I want to design something - a model with some terminology - that's simple and specific that people can use to get rolling with this stuff.

graham christian 02-18-2013 05:19 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323700)
Hi Graham, it's my term, and I got it from the world of acoustics and mechanical design, as cones are used to decouple and reduce vibrations in all kinds of things from drums, to speakers, to engines.

All of this is my own terminology as applied to body, movement, and power. I want to design something - a model with some terminology - that's simple and specific that people can use to get rolling with this stuff.

O.K. Thanks. One more....why the word 'decouple?'

Dan Richards 02-18-2013 05:50 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Graham Christian wrote: (Post 323701)
O.K. Thanks. One more....why the word 'decouple?'

OK, let's start with something simple. You teach aikido. How many people do you have to work with to have them keep their shoulders down and relaxed. It's very common - among not only beginners, but guys with a bit of muscle bulk to do a few predictable things: They lock their shoulders up - thus coupling the shoulder with their torso - and, the hold their breath - and then try to muscle their way through it. And, you, as I'm sure you do show them how to ....lower...relax...release the shoulders, in order to let the - whatever you call it - ki, power, energy, path - travel through their arms - rather than being blocked at the shoulder point. And it's that decoupling of the shoulder from the torso that allows the .....[insert ki-ish word of your choice] to flow.

It's the same with the feet and toes. coupled toes to feet are the same as coupled shoulders/arms to torso. If you stand feet flat on the floor, you're feet - under the pressure of your body are coupled to the floor. The flow of energy is blocked - at least enough to not allow for the power (directed, transformed energy) to move out of the body and into the ground.

By creating a point - big toe, other toes, one of two points on outer ball, and one on heel - take your pick - you decouple the body from the floor - creating a drain channel for the energy - which, at that point, has been transformed from energy into power.

Also, in the case of getting hit - rather than the vibrations of the hit remaining in the body - they can quickly be discharged into the ground.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you could explain it. I'm still working on a good model to explain the cones and decoupling. I'm getting there. LOL.... and I appreciate you're helping me pick this apart.

graham christian 02-18-2013 06:42 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323703)
OK, let's start with something simple. You teach aikido. How many people do you have to work with to have them keep their shoulders down and relaxed. It's very common - among not only beginners, but guys with a bit of muscle bulk to do a few predictable things: They lock their shoulders up - thus coupling the shoulder with their torso - and, the hold their breath - and then try to muscle their way through it. And, you, as I'm sure you do show them how to ....lower...relax...release the shoulders, in order to let the - whatever you call it - ki, power, energy, path - travel through their arms - rather than being blocked at the shoulder point. And it's that decoupling of the shoulder from the torso that allows the .....[insert ki-ish word of your choice] to flow.

It's the same with the feet and toes. coupled toes to feet are the same as coupled shoulders/arms to torso. If you stand feet flat on the floor, you're feet - under the pressure of your body are coupled to the floor. The flow of energy is blocked - at least enough to not allow for the power (directed, transformed energy) to move out of the body and into the ground.

By creating a point - big toe, other toes, one of two points on outer ball, and one on heel - take your pick - you decouple the body from the floor - creating a drain channel for the energy - which, at that point, has been transformed from energy into power.

Also, in the case of getting hit - rather than the vibrations of the hit remaining in the body - they can quickly be discharged into the ground.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you could explain it. I'm still working on a good model to explain the cones and decoupling. I'm getting there. LOL.... and I appreciate you're helping me pick this apart.

O.K. Thanks again. I get the idea.

Well, your talking 'points' and talking 'cones' I assume the point is the point of the cone. Then you are talking 'allowing energy through to the ground.'

I have an understanding on points and the practice of using one point and of moving one point to any point you choose. I can thus do that for as you put it decoupling. All very interesting but I find in the end not too necessary myself for it can all be done from centre. Ie: With enough practice of centre the 'decoupling' happens naturally.

As far as it being needed on parts of the feet in order to allow energy to 'ground' I don't find it necessary. You can have feet flat and do so, you can sit seiza and do so, you can sit on a chair and do so.

So for me it sounds too complex. However I do use a point to allow energy to 'earth' at first different to centre I call Koshi for it is at the back of the hips? base of spine area.

Now here's a concept similar to yours I use or teach to help which is similar to your cone one and in life, although man made, there is an example with two cones. The egg timer. One opens to heaven and one to earth.

So that's me. Enjoy your research. G.

sakumeikan 02-19-2013 02:41 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323699)
Hey Joe, there is a pivotal point on the heel. Not the heel pad, but an actual point. I like the term pivotal point - because it demonstrates that point as a "drain." If was tried to turn on our heel pads...we'd just get mush...and most likely just get stuck and stop. The energy would not drain down faster than it's rising in the heel. But with a point - it drains the energy - which creates power - directed, transformed energy.

Plus, look at Ueshiba's heels at :40 Nuff said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoDK3XuvZWw
Also notice he uses a single point on the outside of the ball on his left foot.

Here's the difference of turning on the heel pad vs turning on a point: The heel when pressed into the pad, actually couples the heel with the leg and the energy in the leg. The energy is not used. Contrast that with moving the energy to as, as you call it, the "pivotal point" - that point - decouples the heel from the leg - and that point creates a vortex drain for the energy - transforming the energy into power. And in fact, it's that point that is the lead for the power.

I can tell you there is heel work in aikido - even if the movements are very small. Aikido is more Chinese than you might think. It may not be taught at the level of "shu" in most of the schools, but by the time you get to "ha" and certainly "ri" and start truly creating your own aikido, everything has to be examined, and nothing can be ruled out.

Also, the need to Create the Disc is going to have people moving in ways they may not have done in their formal training in aikido classes. Most aikidoists really have no clue how to move like that. Most people training and teaching aikido aren't doing aikido. But people are waking up.

Thanks for jumping in and giving me something to chew on towards tweaking the presentation. Cheers...

Dear Dan ,
I see no evidence in the clip you use to illustrate your views that the outside ball of the left foot of O Sensei
has any major bearing.In any way. The clip is such that it is nigh impossible to determine exactly
any point such as the outside of a left foot.The main point about O Senseis movement is the fact that
he has almost natural move.I do notice a tendency for him to use a type of posture akin to shiko dachi [ note the slightly outward turning of the feet ].This posture engages the hip area.I believe the same type of posture is used in Kyudo and Sumo.
You are quite right in your assertion that most aikidoka would not move like you illustrate in your Create a Disc vid.May I also be so bold to suggest that most Aikidoka would not do Nikkayo in the manner that you show in you other vid? Each to his /her own but I consider the waza applied by your students as being ineffective.Sorry if I seem to be unkind.You may well be onto something which may well be informative.i applaud you for doing you research, however as yet I aam not convinced that your views /theories are supported by facts.I look forward to being proved wrong in my views. Keep up the good work.All the best, Joe

Dan Richards 02-19-2013 06:32 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Hey Joe, I used various videos to show some principles, not techniques. In the Youtube comments section for that video, Corky Quakenbush adds:

Quote:

Please understand that the point is not to "escape from nikyo." It is to demonstrate that the application of ki essential to nikyo as a compliance technique must be a constricted flow (the same as any attack), and as such it is subject to the principles of aiki. Aikidoka don't give their arm to an attacker as in this demonstration. We put ourselves in this vulnerable position to show that wrist locks are actually attacks. Again this is a demonstration of principle not teaching a technique.
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 323714)
You are quite right in your assertion that most aikidoka would not move like you illustrate in your Create a Disc vid.

I would agree. I demonstrate moving with a stable centered axis. Most aikidoists don't move like that.

Dan Richards 02-19-2013 06:41 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Graham Christian wrote: (Post 323706)
O.K. Thanks again. I get the idea.

Well, your talking 'points' and talking 'cones' I assume the point is the point of the cone. Then you are talking 'allowing energy through to the ground.'

I have an understanding on points and the practice of using one point and of moving one point to any point you choose. I can thus do that for as you put it decoupling. All very interesting but I find in the end not too necessary myself for it can all be done from centre. Ie: With enough practice of centre the 'decoupling' happens naturally.

As far as it being needed on parts of the feet in order to allow energy to 'ground' I don't find it necessary. You can have feet flat and do so, you can sit seiza and do so, you can sit on a chair and do so.

So for me it sounds too complex.

Graham, thanks for your comments and insights. In fact, if you've read some of my basic comments that include grounding not being necessary; because we already are grounded. The fact that we're here and don't fry into vapor is proof that the ground connection is intrinsic. And I agree, the decoupling model is too complex. It did help me arrive at a destination, but I can see the model is no longer needed. I'm also happy to chuck it out, as it simplifies the model even more. Cheers....

sakumeikan 02-19-2013 10:36 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323717)
Hey Joe, I used various videos to show some principles, not techniques. In the Youtube comments section for that video, Corky Quakenbush adds:

I would agree. I demonstrate moving with a stable centered axis. Most aikidoists don't move like that.

Dear Dan, No comment on your above statement,Cheers Joe.

Dan Richards 02-19-2013 10:44 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Hey, Joe, is this you almost stumbling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTnbV-qTO9o

Really out of lateral alignment there. You should learn to Create the Disc.

Dan Richards 02-19-2013 11:03 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
And who's that other guy in the hakama? One of your students? He's all broken - no body integrity. Falling all over himself. Get him to create the disc, too.

There's ten-year old kids who play out my yard with sticks who make you guys look like amateurs.

sakumeikan 02-19-2013 11:31 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323733)
Hey, Joe, is this you almost stumbling? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTnbV-qTO9o

Really out of lateral alignment there. You should learn to Create the Disc.

Dear Dan ,
Yes indeed it is I . Stumbling , dont think so. Out of alignment am I ?Maybe using your methods would improve my posture .On the other hand maybe using them would assist me in falling over. Who knows.Nice to know we can throw rotten tomatoes at each other in friendly banter.Cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan 02-19-2013 11:43 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323735)
And who's that other guy in the hakama? One of your students? He's all broken - no body integrity. Falling all over himself. Get him to create the disc, too.

There's ten-year old kids who play out my yard with sticks who make you guys look like amateurs.

Dear Dan,
As it happens he was not a student of mine. I only met him few days hence. May you be so kind to let me know where I can meet your ten year old kids? Would love to train with them.Fortunately I have no more vids on youtube , so mercifully I will not receive your critical/ constructive??? comments.
I trust we can beg to differ on certain issues. Good luck with your DIsc production.I would be honoured if you sent me set signed by yourself .I am sure it would change my life forever.
cheers, Joe.

sakumeikan 02-19-2013 11:48 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 323741)
Dear Dan,
As it happens he was not a student of mine. I only met him few days hence. May you be so kind to let me know where I can meet your ten year old kids? Would love to train with them.Fortunately I have no more vids on youtube , so mercifully I will not receive your critical/ constructive??? comments.
I trust we can beg to differ on certain issues. Good luck with your DIsc production.I would be honoured if you sent me set signed by yourself .I am sure it would change my life forever.
cheers, Joe.

Dear Dan I realised I should have said I met him[the Uke ] a a few days beforehand.I guess your comments disurbed the flow of energy in my index finger causing me to use the wrong word. Gee whiz, send me your Creating a Disc dvd [in a plain brown wrapper ]asap, to reestablish a connection between my brain and my right index finger. Cheers, Joe.

Dan Richards 02-19-2013 11:52 AM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Joe, I'm not interested in doing anything but learning and sharing. I didn't throw any tomatoes. I don't have any tomatoes. I just handed you the tomato, that you dropped, back to you.

[ Oh, shit. The kids in the yard have tomtatoes. Duck! ]

sakumeikan 02-19-2013 12:37 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Quote:

Dan Richards wrote: (Post 323743)
Joe, I'm not interested in doing anything but learning and sharing. I didn't throw any tomatoes. I don't have any tomatoes. I just handed you the tomato, that you dropped, back to you.

[ Oh, shit. The kids in the yard have tomtatoes. Duck! ]

Dear Dan,
If you hand me along with your tomato a nice slice of virtual reality cheese and pickle maybe I could enjoy a virtual sandwich while drinking my imaginary cup of tea reading your comments .All kidding aside this jolly banter is ok by me.Like you I welcome the opportunities to learn /share and debate with others on this forum.
All the best, Joe [the man who stumbles at the drop of a Jo].

graham christian 02-19-2013 12:48 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Hey I'll need some of those rotten Tomatoes for Arsene Wenger tonight....Arsenal aren't too stable!

Dan Richards 02-19-2013 01:58 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Now we're talking! Cheers...


Dan Richards 02-19-2013 02:03 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Graham, the kids are on their way.


graham christian 02-19-2013 02:44 PM

Re: Skin IS Structure: Creating the Disc Video
 
Now that's fun!!! Oh, and so was watching Arsenal tonight :)


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