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Dave Gallagher 01-23-2013 10:50 PM

Tennis Elbow
 
Has anyone ever trained (or not trained) with tennis elbow? I have it in my right arm. I am doing a therapy that is helping but it wont go away overnight.

lbb 01-24-2013 08:07 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
I've got plenty of experience with tennis elbow, in both elbows. It's like any other tendinitis, in that it is aggravated by activities of daily living and not necessarily great big athletic feats or obvious trauma, and that it easily becomes chronic if not cared for properly. It can get bad enough that even trivial activities like picking up a very light weight can be extremely painful.

If you don't have much experience with soft tissue injuries, you'll probably make some mistakes about when it is "healed", and do at least some of your learning the hard way (if you learn at all; some people are stubborn and never do). I don't believe that total rest is really good for tennis elbow in most cases (maybe even all cases, since the activities of daily living that can aggravate inflammation are so many and so trivial, even if you're "resting" you're aggravating it). In my all-too-extensive experience, the solution is to control the range of motion, manage inflammation, restrict activities as needed, and be patient. Control the range of motion with a good tennis elbow strap, which I recommend wearing pretty much constantly at first, not just for athletic activity - it will provide the right amount of compression and restrict your range of motion just enough to reduce the aggravation of the elbow. Manage inflammation with your anti-inflammatory of your choice -- used properly as an anti-inflammatory, NOT as a pain reliever. Restrict activity by cutting out some things altogether (pull-ups are probably a bad idea) and reducing the intensity and duration of others (suburi is doable for many degrees of tennis elbow, but lots of suburi with a big fat club of a suburito is not). And patience, well, we all have to learn that one with injuries. Learn to monitor the injury, to become sensitive to its moods and to learn the subtle signs: at the point where you feel "ow, PAIN", you've long past overdone it. It will come around if you do the right thing; if you don't, you'll just keep cycling back to zero, or worse.

NagaBaba 01-24-2013 10:52 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Quote:

Dave Gallagher wrote: (Post 322564)
Has anyone ever trained (or not trained) with tennis elbow? I have it in my right arm. I am doing a therapy that is helping but it wont go away overnight.

I did when I was young, beautiful and stupid. I'd suggest stopping completely practice, healing it correctly and then resume your training. Otherwise it may develop osteoporosis that will permanently disable you of some flexibility.

Gary Petrison 01-24-2013 08:19 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Great resource here, download the .pdf: http://www.drjuliansaunders.com/reso.../dodgy_elbows/

Michael Varin 01-25-2013 12:18 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
I completely disagree with Mary with regard to limiting range of motion.

When I was doing a lot of heavy weightlifting I got tennis elbow in my right elbow and it was terrible.

This will be somewhat difficult to describe, but using some simple dynamic stretches for my wrist and elbow, and self-myofascial release on my forearm and upper arm using a tennis ball completely resolved the issue.

I have showed others a subset of the movements I used and was told that they could stop going to their physical therapists because my exercises worked better.

The cause of tennis elbow is in the muscles and connective tissue of the forearm, not in the elbow joint. You can alleviate the pain fairly quickly and easily.

You have to know your body.

Carsten Möllering 01-25-2013 01:31 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
I've had this problem.

This really helped me!
For the english Version scroll down until "DEUTSCH / GERMANN . . . . english | dutch" and click "english".
(The menu on top seems not to work.)

It helped also some friends who suffered much more then me.
Like Michael said: Stretching is a very effective Therapie!

roman naly 01-25-2013 02:48 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Acupuncture helped me. I had tried a cortisone injection initially but apart from the pain of the needle not much else happened. As a skeptic i waited 4 months until I was convinced to try acupuncture. It started to get better but it was quite a long time until it had fully healed. I did use a strap to help alleviate pain during day to day activities.
Good luck and don't rush it

lbb 01-25-2013 07:56 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 322621)
I completely disagree with Mary with regard to limiting range of motion.

The cause of tennis elbow is in the muscles and connective tissue of the forearm, not in the elbow joint. You can alleviate the pain fairly quickly and easily.

Apparently you don't know this, but a tennis elbow strap is not applied to the elbow. It is applied to the forearm and compresses the connective tissue immediately distal to the elbow joint.

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 322621)
You have to know your body.

How ironic; I couldn't agree more. I had serious tennis elbow in both elbows, and got over it using the method I described. Of course YMMV. You stated that you did something that APPEARS TO YOU to be different from what I did, and it worked, but you did not state that you tried my approach and found that it failed. Is that the case? If not, what's the basis of your "disagreement"?

NagaBaba 01-25-2013 08:16 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Yes acupuncture helped me also, combined with ultrasounds therapy. But even when pain disappears, you need to be very careful next few months with strong locks on the elbow or weapons practice.

Michael Varin 01-26-2013 04:12 AM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Mary,

I didn't disagree for arguments sake, and really don't know why you would want to argue this. I'm trying to share ideas with people that will hopefully help them, as I am sure you are too. I offer it up in contrast to things that I feel will be less or counter-productive. People can take or leave it as they choose.

You said:

Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote:
In my all-too-extensive experience, the solution is to control the range of motion, ....

This is why I said:

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote:
I completely disagree with Mary with regard to limiting range of motion.

That's what I disagree with. I have no experience with a tennis elbow strap. I can say that anything that adds artificial support or binding to your body will not help heal the body to a natural state and should be avoided unless it is absolutely necessary.

Tennis elbow is caused by making repeated motions in a limited range with the hand closed.

It is alleviated (and prevented) by moving one's elbow through a full range of motion while one's wrist is stretched in a variety of ways. In addition to this, it is advisable that one address the tissue quality of their forearms. One does this through self-myofascial release, a.k.a. foam rolling.

aikidoc 01-26-2013 02:50 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Tennis elbow, lateral epicondylitis, in the acute phase, is inflammation of the extensor tendons at the area of the insertion into the bone. Left untreated, it can deteriorate into epicondylosis-degeneration of the tendon (harder to treat).

I get good results with a form of deep tissue therapy called Graston Technique (instrument assisted soft tissue mobilization-IASTM) and cold (low level) laser therapy couple with a tennis elbow strap, home icing and exercises. The tissue therapy breaks down adhesions and granular tissue and the laser speeds healing. Stretching and exercise re-establish properly lined up scar tissue. Find a chiropractor or chiropractic orthopedist or physical therapist using Graston and Laser. They might also do Mill's Maneuver to break up adhesion. Ice is appropriate if acute and inflamed. It won't help much if degenerative (soft dark tendon with few inflammatory cells).

lbb 01-26-2013 03:57 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 322699)
That's what I disagree with. I have no experience with a tennis elbow strap. [

In that case, you have no experience or knowledge with how it compresses and provides support, and might want to refrain from judging its efficacy.

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 322699)
I can say that anything that adds artificial support or binding to your body will not help heal the body to a natural state and should be avoided unless it is absolutely necessary.

Really? Anything? Anything at all? Will not help in any way? And every single person who uses a tennis elbow strap, and has empirical evidence to compare their results when using it and when not using it, is completely wrong about whether it helps them? Are you sure about that five minutes?

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 322699)
Tennis elbow is caused by making repeated motions in a limited range with the hand closed.

How do you define "closed"? Do you simply mean flexed, or do you mean in the form of a fist?

Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 322699)
It is alleviated (and prevented) by moving one's elbow through a full range of motion while one's wrist is stretched in a variety of ways.

I'll not make the mistake of guessing at what you mean by "a variety of ways". I will point out that at the point where a joint is severely inflamed, attempting a normal range of motion may not be the best idea until the inflammation is addressed first.

aikidoc 01-26-2013 06:23 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
A tennis elbow strap diffuses the stresses away from the site of injury. In bad cases, one cannot even hold a glass of water (personal experience). It helps let the area heal while allowing minor stress to help avoid diffuse scar tissue.

aikidoc 01-26-2013 06:27 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
The initial naming of the term comes from improperly execute back hands by tennis players. Extending the wrist under sudden load. Flicking the wrist to impart spin or hitting the ball off the sweet spot.

Janet Rosen 01-26-2013 07:22 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Quote:

John Riggs wrote: (Post 322746)
A tennis elbow strap diffuses the stresses away from the site of injury. In bad cases, one cannot even hold a glass of water (personal experience). It helps let the area heal while allowing minor stress to help avoid diffuse scar tissue.

Yep.

Ellis Amdur 01-26-2013 07:23 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
I've hard really bad golfer's elbow for about six years (inside of joint rather than outside). Tried a variety of things. The pain has been so bad that sometimes, the pressure of a shirtsleeve was painful.

What has finally helped is body weight exercises with correct alignment and full range of motion (push ups, for example) and hanging up to a minute for four sets from a chinning bar twice a week. After six years, seems to be finally cleared.

Ellis Amdur

Dave Gallagher 01-26-2013 10:28 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Thanks to all who have replied. I am having good results so far with wrist bending with arm extended and wearing a band on my forearm neat the elbow.
I have heard of the hanging therapy mentioned by Amdur sensei and will give it a try.
So far so good. It's not gone yet but much better.

Michael Varin 01-26-2013 10:44 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Thank you, Ellis.

Golfer's elbow and tennis elbow are obviously related conditions. Both can cause intense pain. I know that from personal experience.

These conditions are not natural. Natural movement is all that you need to eliminate them for good.

Gimmicks, gadgets, and ibuprofen can't do that.

Michael Varin 01-26-2013 10:48 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
Quote:

John Riggs wrote: (Post 322746)
A tennis elbow strap diffuses the stresses away from the site of injury. In bad cases, one cannot even hold a glass of water (personal experience). It helps let the area heal while allowing minor stress to help avoid diffuse scar tissue.

John,

Where is the site of injury?

KEM 01-28-2013 04:26 PM

Re: Tennis Elbow
 
I had this when I started training more than 4 times/week. For me it was aggravated by kotegaeshi and sometimes shihonage. I used 'kiatsu' a pressure wrap and relaxed intensity in training and it slowly improved. My physician called it 'golfers elbow' and said it is common in certain sports and usually the 'athlete' won't rest properly so most just find a therapeutic Tx and alteration in the activity. I have to wonder if i built up enough scar tissue to keep everything stuck together better. I know that is not traditional thinking...just sayin'! Perhaps we build scar tissue in these areas for a reason?


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