AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   General (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22182)

rulemaker 01-14-2013 10:22 AM

Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Any news on the promotions?

I saw on facebook that Ikuhiro Kubota was promoted to 8th Dan.

batemanb 01-16-2013 04:36 AM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Alongside the Bill Gleason promotion that Chris mentions in another thread, Dennis Hooker has been promoted to 7th Dan, as has John Messores, Kevin Choate and Patricia Saotome.

My Teacher Nakao sensei was also promoted to 7th Dan.

The complete list is here http://www.aikikai.or.jp/jpn/info/2013/h25.pdf western names are easy to read :)

Krystal Locke 01-16-2013 03:09 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Congrats Rich!

I am wondering what the kagami biraki promotions to ranks under 5th dan mean. Is it typical for hombu to reserve announcing any ranks given within the dojo itself until kagami biraki? I imagine an unfortunate number are posthumous. Are some strictly honorary?

Chris Li 01-16-2013 03:18 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 322112)
Congrats Rich!

I am wondering what the kagami biraki promotions to ranks under 5th dan mean. Is it typical for hombu to reserve announcing any ranks given within the dojo itself until kagami biraki? I imagine an unfortunate number are posthumous. Are some strictly honorary?

All of the ranks that they list at Kagami Biraki are by recommendation - those ranks only come on Kagami Biraki. That's why there are fewer ranks listed below 5th dan since most of those ranks come through testing - it's cheaper (about half the price).

As a mental exercise ;) try calculating the fees that come into hombu from the Kagami Biraki promotions alone - remember that 7th dan can go for as much as $5000. No guesses on 8th:) .

Best,

Chris

Conrad Gus 01-16-2013 03:31 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 322115)
As a mental exercise ;) try calculating the fees that come into hombu from the Kagami Biraki promotions alone - remember that 7th dan can go for as much as $5000. No guesses on 8th:) .

That's it. I'm starting my own organization. 7th dan is a bargain at $2500.

Come on Chris, I know you want one! :D

Krystal Locke 01-16-2013 03:33 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Sneaky bastage. :-) Yes, I agree that promotion fees are high. No, I'm not going to get a lot into it here because I am trapped in that political mangle myself and have some vested interests. But that has never been my point....

I will say that I am glad that hombu backed down on charging for supporting foreign kyu ranks. Kinda piddly money for the amount of work all around and ill will that would foster.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm just having a hard time seeing the need for a recommendation for shodan rather than a test. I am spoiled by the local aikido community.

hughrbeyer 01-16-2013 10:35 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
I've been wondering... given that ranks come more slowly as you go up in the organization, has anyone calculated what the cost for rank per year is as you go up through the ranks? So if the cost for a rank which you earn after 5 years is 5X the cost of a rank you earn after a year, isn't it pretty much a wash?

Chris Li 01-17-2013 01:09 AM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Hugh Beyer wrote: (Post 322136)
I've been wondering... given that ranks come more slowly as you go up in the organization, has anyone calculated what the cost for rank per year is as you go up through the ranks? So if the cost for a rank which you earn after 5 years is 5X the cost of a rank you earn after a year, isn't it pretty much a wash?

That's true, if you break it down by year, then it probably works out to about what you'd pay in fees to a professional association. OTOH, most professional associations give you more in the way of real benefits and support, which may be part of the problem.

Best,

Chris

sakumeikan 01-17-2013 02:27 AM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Conrad Gustafson wrote: (Post 322117)
That's it. I'm starting my own organization. 7th dan is a bargain at $2500.

Come on Chris, I know you want one! :D

Dear Conrad,
I'll order a dozen[ can you give me a discount?] Just let me know the Swiss bank you use. Cheers, Joe.

George S. Ledyard 01-17-2013 02:38 AM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Bryan Bateman wrote: (Post 322079)
Alongside the Bill Gleason promotion that Chris mentions in another thread, Dennis Hooker has been promoted to 7th Dan, as has John Messores, Kevin Choate and Patricia Saotome.

My Teacher Nakao sensei was also promoted to 7th Dan.

The complete list is here http://www.aikikai.or.jp/jpn/info/2013/h25.pdf western names are easy to read :)

Don't forget Tres Hofmeister, Ikeda Sensei's senior student.

phitruong 01-17-2013 07:54 AM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Conrad Gustafson wrote: (Post 322117)
That's it. I'm starting my own organization. 7th dan is a bargain at $2500.

Come on Chris, I know you want one! :D

do we get t-shirt and coffee mug with that? or even fries? discount with starbucks?

Krystal Locke 01-18-2013 09:19 AM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Hugh Beyer wrote: (Post 322136)
I've been wondering... given that ranks come more slowly as you go up in the organization, has anyone calculated what the cost for rank per year is as you go up through the ranks? So if the cost for a rank which you earn after 5 years is 5X the cost of a rank you earn after a year, isn't it pretty much a wash?

So rank is an annual membership fee that we make lump advance payments on? What do we get for having the rank? What do we get for having the rank backed by the organization? What do we get from the organization other than the backing of the rank?

I can see that we do get some value out of the rank, we can wave a nifty number around in our advertising, we can use it to get a general idea of our positioning in a group of people, etc.

The organizational backing of the rank gives us some measure of quality control, and assurance for ourselves and our students.

The other stuff? I really like the nice certificate in a different language and aesthetic style than my other certificates. I like the little book that has a lot of names of people I admire. I like knowing that I can go to the hombu, show my card, and get admitted to a class with a nod if not a smile.

Carl Thompson 01-18-2013 01:49 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
"What's in it for me?" people ask, when it should be, "what's in it for aikido?"

At the very least... a donation to the founder's non-profit organisation for it's promotion.

Krystal Locke 01-18-2013 02:49 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Carl Thompson wrote: (Post 322240)
"What's in it for me?" people ask, when it should be, "what's in it for aikido?"

At the very least... a donation to the founder's non-profit organisation for it's promotion.

How much of a donation? And is it a donation if the amount is prescribed and the money is in exchange for something? What is keeping the organization for giving someone a rank at a different cost?

Ok, let's ask the question, then. What is in it for the art of aikido if my next rank costs such an amount paid to the org? What does the art of aikido get from my chunk of change? Is the organization the art of aikido itself? You are stating that my money is at least a contribution for the promotion of the art (I'll leave the non-profit claim alone a bit). Where is that promotion, and does the art in general benefit from it?

You seem to make it sound like I am being small and selfish. I can guarantee that there are a lot of dojo heads that ask themselves this question all over the world. If it is valid to think of my actions' effects on others, why not think about others' actions effects on me? Why not question and discuss the value of something that has a huge historical, political, and emotional load? I bet you sometimes wonder and discuss where your income taxes go, right? Is that an offense to your nation or an act of civic engagement?

Bottom line for me, and proof conclusive that I am indeed a shallow, selfish person. I like the pretty certificates in a language I can barely read, so I'll pretty much pay what is asked as long as it doesn't prevent me from meeting my real financial obligations.

Chris Li 01-18-2013 02:51 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Carl Thompson wrote: (Post 322240)
"What's in it for me?" people ask, when it should be, "what's in it for aikido?"

At the very least... a donation to the founder's non-profit organisation for it's promotion.

So far as I can tell, the Founder had no interest at all in organizations of any kind.

If it's a donation - then call it a donation and give up the myth of rank, IMO.

Then there's the question of whether or not that donation supports the best way to promote Aikido, or the best thing for Aikido. I'm not saying it isn't, but the questions should be asked.

Best,

Chris

Krystal Locke 01-18-2013 04:35 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 322247)
So far as I can tell, the Founder had no interest at all in organizations of any kind.

If it's a donation - then call it a donation and give up the myth of rank, IMO.

Then there's the question of whether or not that donation supports the best way to promote Aikido, or the best thing for Aikido. I'm not saying it isn't, but the questions should be asked.

Best,

Chris

Holy crap, we agree on something. (I think we actually agree on lots of stuff, in general....)

Now here is a simple question concerning a fact. I have done some small research ( a few minutes on the interwebs) on this fact, to no good result. I know there are people here who can answer this question easily and truthfully.

Is the Zaidan Houjin Aikikai non-profit?

Really, I just haven't found anything that states what the financial structure of the Aikikai is. Doesn't really matter to me, but I'd like to know. Good hing I'm not a cat, my simple curiosity would have killed me years ago.

Chris Li 01-18-2013 05:00 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 322250)
Holy crap, we agree on something. (I think we actually agree on lots of stuff, in general....)

Now here is a simple question concerning a fact. I have done some small research ( a few minutes on the interwebs) on this fact, to no good result. I know there are people here who can answer this question easily and truthfully.

Is the Zaidan Houjin Aikikai non-profit?

Really, I just haven't found anything that states what the financial structure of the Aikikai is. Doesn't really matter to me, but I'd like to know. Good hing I'm not a cat, my simple curiosity would have killed me years ago.

I guess that we'll have to agree to agree then....:D

Anyway, I believe that it is non-profit.

Best,

Chris

Basia Halliop 01-18-2013 05:09 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
If it's non-profit, does anyone know what they spend their income on? I'm sure more detailed information is available somewhere, just curious if someone has a general idea of what their major costs might be.

Chris Li 01-18-2013 05:29 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Basia Halliop wrote: (Post 322254)
If it's non-profit, does anyone know what they spend their income on? I'm sure more detailed information is available somewhere, just curious if someone has a general idea of what their major costs might be.

They have some summary financial statements on the Japanese side of their website, but they're fairly general.

I'd love to see a more detailed accounting, and one done in several languages. I'm not demanding anything, or asserting a "right", but these are the kinds of things (IMO) that they need to think about doing if they want people to stay and support them.

Best,

Chris

robin_jet_alt 01-18-2013 08:19 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
I image a fair bit gets spent on living expenses for Doshu and Waka Sensei.

hughrbeyer 01-18-2013 09:08 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 322247)
So far as I can tell, the Founder had no interest at all in organizations of any kind.

Are you sure? Howabout the single complement Kisshomaru ever got from his father (by lore)--on the founding of the Tokyo dojo? I think he wanted the organization to spread aikido, he just didn't want to have to run it.

In general, I do like having a parent organization. I like it that Hombu has decided to be an umbrella organization so I can walk into most dojos and even if they've never heard of my teacher or the ASU, they accept me because I'm affiliated with Hombu. I'd like to believe there's some quality control, so the more squirrely groups are easier to identify. It's hard to put a price tag on that.

robin_jet_alt 01-18-2013 09:18 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 322253)
I guess that we'll have to agree to agree then....:D

Anyway, I believe that it is non-profit.

Best,

Chris

財団法人 (zaidan houjin) actually means a non-profit foundation...

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B2%...B3%95%E4%BA%BA

Chris Li 01-18-2013 10:16 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 322265)
財団法人 (zaidan houjin) actually means a non-profit foundation...

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B2%...B3%95%E4%BA%BA

Well, it's actually a 公益財団法人 now, but yeah, same difference.

Best,

Chris

Krystal Locke 01-18-2013 10:18 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 322265)
財団法人 (zaidan houjin) actually means a non-profit foundation...

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B2%...B3%95%E4%BA%BA

Huh, my dictionary shows it as incorporated foundation, essentially, just a business. Now, I dont read kanji well, and my translation software just makes jibberish of the site you linked, so I will just bow to your greater knowledge.

robin_jet_alt 01-18-2013 10:19 PM

Re: Aikikai Kagami Biraki Promotions
 
I'm interested to read what it has become, but all I am getting is mojibake.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:52 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.