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-   -   Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22114)

Chris Li 12-30-2012 08:21 PM

Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
New blog post!

Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku - "Aikido no Ogi", by Keisetsu Yoshimaru

Find out how to be scary... :D

Best,

Chris

Michael Hackett 12-30-2012 09:54 PM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Another gift! Thanks Chris.

Michael Varin 12-30-2012 11:27 PM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Chris,

I enjoyed reading that.

I'm curious. What do you make of what was said?

Are you making connections to "IP/IT/IS" or do you just find it interesting?

Chris Li 12-31-2012 12:44 AM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Quote:

Michael Varin wrote: (Post 321145)
Chris,

I enjoyed reading that.

I'm curious. What do you make of what was said?

Are you making connections to "IP/IT/IS" or do you just find it interesting?

In this particular one? Not so many connections to IP (not obvious ones, anyway, the Aiki no Rentai section was more relevant to that, with the exception of the diagram), but I like the look at Sokaku Takeda from another source.

Best,

Chris

Tengu859 12-31-2012 05:59 AM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Chris,

I hope you are leaving the best for last...!!! I've enjoyed all your work so far. Thanks.

Take Care,

ChrisW

Cady Goldfield 12-31-2012 10:31 AM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Chris,
These little revelations about Takeda and Sagawa are such a treat. We're very fortunate to have someone to translate -- not just someone with the ability to do the technical transliterations, and the patience to bear out such an arduous job, but with a rich budo background that must certainly make those translations closer to the mark on the original speaker/writer's intentions. I hope that the words "Thank you so much" don't get old for you any time soon. :)

The comment by Sagawa about Takeda's eyes in the famous photo... I had wondered at that picture. Takeda almost looks like he's hamming for the camera, like someone's grandpa at the family cookout. Did that man ever let his guard down for a moment? The photo might show one of the rare times he may have.

The whole thing about maintaining a Bujutsu demeanor all the time -- If one is practicing a way of life, not just a martial art as a hobby, then to be completely authentic I suppose that one must -be- Bujutsu. In Takeda's case, it was his birthright and how he grew up. He was a displaced samurai caught in a cultural vortex as society changed around him. After reading Stanley Pranin's and Ellis Amdur's accounts, I got the impression that this is the only way Takeda could be under his particular life circumstances. He was a creature of Nature, a product of his environment.

But what was Sagawa's excuse? ;) It seems that he had a much easier life and that Bujutsu was a chosen pursuit for his father and then for him. His skill levels may have been the best of all the Japanese masters (by his own and others' reckoning), but it seems to me that his Bujutsu bearing was something he had to work at and assume, that it must have taken much longer to have it fit like a second skin, rather than have it be something that grew from the inside, out as perhaps it was with Takeda. As a "rich kid" maybe he needed a purpose in life, and made a conscious decision for Bujutsu to be "it."
By contrast, Takeda didn't have that kind of choice. He simply "was."

Maybe I'm over-thinking this. :D

The aversion to Zen that was expressed by Sagawa (and Ueshiba) is also interesting. I can see the logic of Bujutsu being all-incompassing in both body and mind development; that is, if you are training with full intensity, awareness will develop out of necessisty. Your mind will "automatically" have to clear itself and be the "calm center withing the sea of chaos." Just train for a while with someone who is fiercely adept with a sword, and you'll see what I mean.

In defense of Zen, though, it isn't just about calming the mind and creating a coping mechanism (in the face of death); it's also about about -clearing- the mind in a way that heightens awareness, both of one's self and of one's surroundings (and opponent). If a student is not living La Vida Bujutsu the way Takeda did, using certain Zen concepts as part of the training regimen, can help develop that kind of awareness.

I don't see the full practice of Zen, as a lifestyle, as being necessary to developing the necessary mindset for Bujutsu, and in fact it probably would detract from it, if for no other reason than it takes time away from actual physical martial training. But I do believe that the adoption of aspects of it, certain practices incorporated into the martial system, as beneficial to martial training, particularly for the majority of people in contemporary society who are not going to pursue the kind of Bujutsu way of life in the manner of Takeda or Sagawa. An example of the successful intentional inclusion of awareness training is in the art of I Liq Chuan, which from Day One begins training its students in awareness at the same time that they are learning physical concepts. The mental and physical become one and the same.

Okay, enough rambling. I'm off to practice my Bujutsu Stink-Eye and see if I can scare anyone...

Lorel Latorilla 12-31-2012 10:37 AM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Chris can I get the original link for this?

Chris Li 12-31-2012 11:16 AM

Re: Yukiyoshi Sagawa on Bujutsu and Ki-Ryoku
 
Quote:

Lorel Latorilla wrote: (Post 321171)
Chris can I get the original link for this?

Hi Lorel,

Amazon Japan has it:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%90%88%E6.../dp/4583036620

I'm not sure whether it's still on bookstore shelves in Japan or not...

Best,

Chris


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