AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   General (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Knocking off the rust (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22080)

Krystal Locke 12-19-2012 11:49 AM

Knocking off the rust
 
After a decade long break, I've had about 2 years back on the mat. My ukemi isn't coming back. Rolls still hurt, I cant seem to install better ukemi, and adjusting technique is difficult. Am I too well programmed? I wont roll unless I am actually thrown, I am stepping out and tapping out of techniques, and generally being a lame-assed wuss training partner.

Any words of wisdom, kicks in the pants, commiseration, training tips, etc.?

phitruong 12-19-2012 02:53 PM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 320743)
After a decade long break, I've had about 2 years back on the mat. My ukemi isn't coming back. Rolls still hurt, I cant seem to install better ukemi, and adjusting technique is difficult. Am I too well programmed? I wont roll unless I am actually thrown, I am stepping out and tapping out of techniques, and generally being a lame-assed wuss training partner.

Any words of wisdom, kicks in the pants, commiseration, training tips, etc.?

i am willing to offer out my "kicks in the pants" service. :)

whether i roll or not, it depends on the situation. i don't normally roll unless i was thrown.

Don't know what your aikido practice is like so can't really comment. however (sort of a but, large one :) ) most aikido folks that i have seen tend to roll like a wheel. years ago, i attent an aikiweb friendship seminar taught by Dennis Hooker, Chuck Clark and Ellis Amdur (really really great seminar). Ellis taught a ukemi class and his talk of ukemi changed the way i do roll (except for egg rolls, spring rolls and so on). Ellis way of rolling is like a ball instead of a wheel, based on his observation of the monkey at the zoo. my mates and i, we called it monkemi (monkey ukemi). Ellis has a DVD. i would recommend it. i also worked with some systema folks for a period of time and their approach to ukemi is very similar to Ellis but with some differences (those systema buggers are crazy). things to consider. don't attack the mats like your enermy. make it your best friend and lover. caress it, feel it, flow with it, be gentle with it, play with it. watch this guy move http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duMScxR7LJ8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXPkmwhp5SA i wouldn't try the park bench unless you are pretty relax and flow with it.

Janet Rosen 12-19-2012 05:22 PM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
I also recommend both the Ellis Amdur dvd and any Systema person you can work with.

Lyle Laizure 12-20-2012 06:20 AM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
I enjoy taking falls when the person I am working with is actually throwing me. That being said it depends on the level of partner I am working with as to whether or not I will fall. If I am working with a less experienced partner I am more likely to fall so that my partner is able to learn the movement. If it is a more advanced partner they better be taking my balance etc because they should know better. I think of it as a responsibility to make sure that the technique is "real," for the person executing it at the time, before I take the fall.

James Sawers 12-20-2012 04:02 PM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 320743)
After a decade long break, I've had about 2 years back on the mat. My ukemi isn't coming back. Rolls still hurt, I cant seem to install better ukemi, and adjusting technique is difficult. Am I too well programmed? I wont roll unless I am actually thrown, I am stepping out and tapping out of techniques, and generally being a lame-assed wuss training partner.

Any words of wisdom, kicks in the pants, commiseration, training tips, etc.?

I try to look at ukemi as the final part of the technique that nage is executing. In other words, the ukemi is not someting that uke is doing in response to nage, but that the ukemi is the completion of nage's technique. The end result is less of a "clash" of two opposing bodies/forces. This also results in less of a clash with the mat. I like Phi's description of his love affair with the mat. Of course, this is all so much easier to describe than to actualize. Perhaps the approach to take is to consider taking ukemi like landing a airplane. As long as you can walk away from it, it is a good landing, so less of a focus on correct form and more what your body wants/needs to do to survive the ukemi. I have seen high-level shihan with this approach. Their ukemi is not very elegant, but it gets the job done, it works for their body, and they get back up.

robin_jet_alt 12-20-2012 05:48 PM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
I wish I could work with you on this because it is a bit of a pet topic of mine.

Firstly, not falling unless you are thrown is generally a good way to train because it makes your partner work to get the technique right, and it also allows you to feel a technique as it is done to you from start to finish. Unfortunately, it doesn't always give you the best opportunity to practice your ukemi, and if the technique is done well, you want to make sure your ukemi is good or you might get hurt.

One way that people with poor ukemi use to compensate for this is they disengage in order to protect themselves, which causes them not to give a proper attack. For example, I've had people attack me with grabs, and all I do is twitch a muscle or two and they let go. That doesn't let me practice my technique and it doesn't let them practice their ukemi either. I'm sure this isn't what you do, but it can happen. I'm going to guess that you are the sort that holds on without falling and potentially damages themselves. Am I right? If that is the case, it can make it difficult for tori because they don't want to hurt you and they know that you aren't comfortable receiving.

Anyway, my advice when training is to look after yourself first. Use all your training as a chance to practice your ukemi so that you are comfortable with it. Once you get comfortable, you can decide not to fall if you are not thrown.

Ukemi is also more than just the fall. For example, the ukemi for shihonage is particularly tricky because there is a whole lot of positioning that goes on before the fall to make sure that you release tension on your elbow and shoulder. I'm afraid I don't have a vid of this. It is something that my old teacher taught me, and it has proved extremely valuable.

When it comes to rolls and break falls, I find the methods in the following videos to be helpful. Firstly, try the rolling method in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Tnv4-83HmgI

This is how I teach rolling these days, and I like to do it as slowly as possible, without kicking off. Just allow your weight to come forward until you go over naturally. Daniel demonstrates this well in the video. When you move on to standing, try to get the same feeling, so that you bend your legs to get close to the mat and don't kick off. Notice that you will roll at an angle, not straight ahead. Let this happen. It is more natural.

The next video is more to do with break falls than rolls, but I really like the approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpBpM38TMg

Just make sure you don't try to do it all at once, and get comfortable with the early exercises before you move on. The first exercise where he rolls in a circle is very good for getting comfortable with touching the mat. Also, the exercise where he flips off someone's back is easier when you use a soft(ish) object like a big punching bag. My wife still doesn't have the courage to do a standing forward roll, but she is happy to do a flip off a punching bag. It is surprisingly easy.

Anyway, don't try to jump into it. Try to relax and get comfortable with touching the mat. Start low and slow and build up from there.

I hope this helps, and I really wish I could see you on the mat.

Robin

amoeba 01-11-2013 06:08 AM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
Robin, we use to do the second one (or at least a very similar approach), especially in kids' class. Nice way to prepare for doing breakfalls!

Robert Cowham 01-11-2013 10:40 AM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
A good method in my experience is to get people to do a backwards roll from sitting on the mat, and then to play with reversing the backwards roll at various points during it so that you ultimately becomes a forwards roll.

E.g. roll backwards half way and then forwards, repeat a few times. Roll backwards until your feet start to touch the mat, then forwards, repeat a few times. Finally roll backwards fully so that you are upright again (on your knees), and now reverse it into a forwards roll. This shows them how to get the shoulder down on to the mat.

Backwards rolls are very unthreatening!

Janet Rosen 01-11-2013 02:34 PM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
Quote:

Robert Cowham wrote: (Post 321854)
Backwards rolls are very unthreatening!

Only to some. Definitely a YMMV issue... :)

Robert Cowham 01-12-2013 03:23 AM

Re: Knocking off the rust
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 321864)
Only to some. Definitely a YMMV issue... :)

OK, perhaps better stated as "backward rolls are typically much less threatening to people than forward rolls when they start"...


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:43 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.