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torres.aikido 11-28-2012 07:01 AM

Macrobiotic Diet
 
Hello,

I have read some articles regarding Aikido and a macrobiotic diet. I have incorporated some of the macrobiotic principles in my diet but I lift weights a few times a week and not sure if it gives me enough protein. What is everyones thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Tim

Tom Verhoeven 11-28-2012 07:35 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Tim Torres wrote: (Post 319791)
Hello,

I have read some articles regarding Aikido and a macrobiotic diet. I have incorporated some of the macrobiotic principles in my diet but I lift weights a few times a week and not sure if it gives me enough protein. What is everyones thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Tim

Lots of miso-soup, tofu and beans I suppose.

However - I remember a story of how O Sensei scolded a student of his because he had taken up weightlifting in addition to his daily Aikido practice.

Is the weightlifting just for fun, for fitness or meant to improve your Aikido ?

All the best,

Tom

torres.aikido 11-28-2012 08:35 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Hi Tom,

Good points. If I think about it I guess the weightlifting is for fitness and to improve my Aikido ... definately not for fun because I hate it!

Tim

Janet Rosen 11-28-2012 09:19 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
I'm curious how you think weightlifting will improve your aikido?

Tom Verhoeven 11-28-2012 09:28 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Tim Torres wrote: (Post 319794)
Hi Tom,

Good points. If I think about it I guess the weightlifting is for fitness and to improve my Aikido ... definately not for fun because I hate it!

Tim

Hi Tim,

I did not forsee that answer; you do not even like weightlifting?

It will not improve your Aikido either - more likely it will work against any improvement at all.

As for fitness I would suggest - do more Aikido !

Tom

torres.aikido 11-28-2012 09:29 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Hi Janet,

Good question ... my thought is that being in shape, a little stronger and healthy can't hurt. I'm not trying to get huge like a bodybuilder just athletic.

Tim

Krystal Locke 11-28-2012 09:50 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Tom Verhoeven wrote: (Post 319792)
Lots of miso-soup, tofu and beans I suppose.

However - I remember a story of how O Sensei scolded a student of his because he had taken up weightlifting in addition to his daily Aikido practice.

Is the weightlifting just for fun, for fitness or meant to improve your Aikido ?

All the best,

Tom

If the foundation of a macrobiotic diet is eating unprocessed local foods in season, why the emphasis on highly processed and not local miso and tofu, and minimally processed but usually dried and stored for months if not years beans? Go look outside. What is at hand? Eat that.

The same Osensei who bitched about weight training had a saltwater drinking contest that he blamed for the liver disease which killed him. I wish folks would not see Osensei as the gold standard for everything. He was a flawed human who did some things very well and other things not so well, who learned and grew and made huge mistakes, and who deserves respect and appreciation, but not blind adulation.

phitruong 11-28-2012 09:51 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Tim Torres wrote: (Post 319801)
Hi Janet,

Good question ... my thought is that being in shape, a little stronger and healthy can't hurt. I'm not trying to get huge like a bodybuilder just athletic.

Tim

try aerobic or kick boxing aerobic. there is nothing like being a room full of women in leotard that move like energize bunny to get your butt in gear. :)

phitruong 11-28-2012 09:54 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 319803)
Go look outside. What is at hand? Eat that.

.

Tim by his location code is in orlando, fl. there would only be tourists outside. they don't taste very good, high on cholesterol, and bitchy as best. :D

Krystal Locke 11-28-2012 10:01 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
I lift weights to supplement my aikido. I find the exercise very helpful. My legs are chronically weak due to severe arthritis in my knees. I can control my weight lifting form to strengthen the leg muscles that protect my knees, and to strengthen my upper body, upon which I have transferred some of the load of just getting up off the mat. I also work my upper body with weights to maintain strength in the shoulder I dislocated.

I also just like being stronger. I like being the girl that the guys ask to open the jar. I enjoy the ability to pick up a bucket of compost and take it out to the front raised beds. I like having the choice of grabbing the new guy's wrist with just enough force that he has to think and feel and look for just a moment to find the easy place or putting enough of a clamp on a godan's wrist that they have something to work with and think and feel and look for just a moment to find the easy place.

Stabilizing my core with weight training has really helped me with balance and groundedness. And gf digs my deltoids and triceps, when I have them.

Tom Verhoeven 11-28-2012 10:58 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 319803)
Quote:

If the foundation of a macrobiotic diet is eating unprocessed local foods in season, why the emphasis on highly processed and not local miso and tofu, and minimally processed but usually dried and stored for months if not years beans? Go look outside. What is at hand? Eat that.
Is this meant as a counter-argument for what I said or as a statement against macrobiotics as a whole?

Eat what is available and grown in your own area is a macrobiotic priciple. So what is your point?

Quote:

The same Osensei who bitched about weight training had a saltwater drinking contest that he blamed for the liver disease which killed him. I wish folks would not see Osensei as the gold standard for everything. He was a flawed human who did some things very well and other things not so well, who learned and grew and made huge mistakes, and who deserves respect and appreciation, but not blind adulation.

The man died at the respectable age of 86. At such an age it is not uncommon for someone to have a decease like cancer. There is an anecdote where he himself states that it was from a saltwater drinking contest. It is however not from a doctor or from medical tests. In fact - drinking salt water is not considered as a common cause of cancer (although it cann't be very healthy either).

The point of the story about O Sensei and his student who started one day lifting weights, is that O Sensei did not know that his student started doing this. It was when the student returned to the dojo that O Sensei sensed something had changed in the students body, in the way his student felt as he threw him. It was then that he told his student to stop whatever it was that he was doing.

This concurs with my own experiences - students that combine Aikido are slower, even weaker in a sense,

I do not know who these folks are that you are referring to who blindly adulate him (people in your own dojo?), personally I am all too aware that all humans are flawed, even if they happen to be a genius as O Sensei. But for the things that he showed and taught he deserves our gratitude, respect and appreciation.

Tom

ps. by the way, English is not my native language - perhaps you could give a description of what you mean by the word "bitched" ?

torres.aikido 11-28-2012 11:39 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
I appreciate everyones comments and insight. I'm still tinkering around with my personal fitness regimen. At lunch 11:30 - 1:00 I either lift weights or play basketball in conjuction with my Aikido training in the evening. Same tinkering I'm doing with my diet - used to eat a lot of meat and a ton of milk. Now i'm trying less meat more brown rice, beans and vegetables - need to add in some Miso soup.

Thanks again for all your comments.

Tim

sakumeikan 11-28-2012 12:24 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 319806)
I lift weights to supplement my aikido. I find the exercise very helpful. My legs are chronically weak due to severe arthritis in my knees. I can control my weight lifting form to strengthen the leg muscles that protect my knees, and to strengthen my upper body, upon which I have transferred some of the load of just getting up off the mat. I also work my upper body with weights to maintain strength in the shoulder I dislocated.

I also just like being stronger. I like being the girl that the guys ask to open the jar. I enjoy the ability to pick up a bucket of compost and take it out to the front raised beds. I like having the choice of grabbing the new guy's wrist with just enough force that he has to think and feel and look for just a moment to find the easy place or putting enough of a clamp on a godan's wrist that they have something to work with and think and feel and look for just a moment to find the easy place.

Stabilizing my core with weight training has really helped me with balance and groundedness. And gf digs my deltoids and triceps, when I have them.

Hi Krystal,
Fancy a part time job as a bouncer??? Joe.

lbb 11-28-2012 12:50 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
What's wrong with strength training? I think it's great. Like most forms of fitness, it can be (and usually is) done badly, or it can be done well and in ways that help you, as long as you know what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't know where you're going, any road will do; if you don't know where you are, a map won't help.

Krystal Locke 11-28-2012 02:03 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Joe Curran wrote: (Post 319821)
Hi Krystal,
Fancy a part time job as a bouncer??? Joe.

Sorry, I signed a non-competition agreement with the security company I work part time for.... :rolleyes: I love the work, but hate the person it turns me into.

ryback 11-28-2012 02:18 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
In my opinion you cannot "help" your aikido by weight-lifting.This kind of exercice come in contrast with aikido's principles and instead of soft agile and quick upper body you'll end up with stiff shoulders and arms.The power of aikido is kokyu and tai sabaki,so forget about weights.Nutrition on the other hand is very important i keep it strict myself.Lots of vegetables,rice,sushi,miso soup and absolutely no meat!!You seem to have that part in the right path,so practice on the tatami,keep your diet like that and forget the weights...

dps 11-28-2012 02:29 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Lifting weights for strength is good for you. Use Aikido practice to maintain flexibility.

Krystal Locke 11-28-2012 02:40 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Yannis Mousoulis wrote: (Post 319828)
In my opinion you cannot "help" your aikido by weight-lifting.This kind of exercice come in contrast with aikido's principles and instead of soft agile and quick upper body you'll end up with stiff shoulders and arms.The power of aikido is kokyu and tai sabaki,so forget about weights.Nutrition on the other hand is very important i keep it strict myself.Lots of vegetables,rice,sushi,miso soup and absolutely no meat!!You seem to have that part in the right path,so practice on the tatami,keep your diet like that and forget the weights...

Which principles? "Train in the spirit of joy"? "Aikido is love"? Can a strengthened muscle not relax and work efficiently? How much muscular development is too much? Is it good that I can bench press 125lbs just because that is how strong by body is without training in lifting, but bad if I practice and can press 130 next week?

What, exactly, is kokyu, and why does nutrition affect it positively but strength training doesn't? What about having a 600 pound leg press (well, I used to....) is stopping me from using that same leg to step out of the way of a punch?

What is optimal, and why is it optimal, and is that optimization universal or a rather individual matter?

Chris Li 11-28-2012 04:10 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 319835)
Which principles? "Train in the spirit of joy"? "Aikido is love"? Can a strengthened muscle not relax and work efficiently? How much muscular development is too much? Is it good that I can bench press 125lbs just because that is how strong by body is without training in lifting, but bad if I practice and can press 130 next week?

What, exactly, is kokyu, and why does nutrition affect it positively but strength training doesn't? What about having a 600 pound leg press (well, I used to....) is stopping me from using that same leg to step out of the way of a punch?

What is optimal, and why is it optimal, and is that optimization universal or a rather individual matter?

Well, it's a no brainer that conditioning that's good for one sport or type of sport is no good for another one - that's why marathon runners don't often look like powerlifters.

The problem with lifitng, if you're trying to do something Internal (let's assume that includes Aikido, for the sake of argument) is that it tends to condition the muscles to behave in the wrong ways for what you're trying to do. Not that it can't be done, if you're careful, but it's tricky enough that I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who's really interested in Internal work.

If you're interested in yank and crank - then it should work fine :D .

Best,

Chris

miso 11-28-2012 04:27 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
O-sensei looked like a pit-bull when he was younger (that is under 60), he must have worked out.

Chris Li 11-28-2012 05:57 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Mark Johnston wrote: (Post 319844)
O-sensei looked like a pit-bull when he was younger (that is under 60), he must have worked out.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with it - it's just tricky to work with the internal stuff. Perhaps I should have said "it's tricky enough that I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who's really interested in Internal work" until they get to a certain point in their training.

Best,

Chris

Cady Goldfield 11-28-2012 06:08 PM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Tim,
I'd suggest going easy on the miso. It's extremely high in sodium, so longterm, frequent consumption, especially if you're eating other high-sodium foods, could be problematic -- high blood pressure.

lbb 11-29-2012 07:04 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
It sounds to me like most of you are using the term "lifting" sort of like talking about "vehicles", and then trying to validate/invalidate sweeping statements like "vehicles can't go more than 20 mph" "vehicles aren't good for traveling over water", etc.

torres.aikido 11-29-2012 07:19 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
My only hesitation with my lifting weights is that I'm fairly unflexible to begin with so I want to improve that ... I know lifting weights doesnt help.

Tom Verhoeven 11-29-2012 07:25 AM

Re: Macrobiotic Diet
 
Quote:

Mark Johnston wrote: (Post 319844)
O-sensei looked like a pit-bull when he was younger (that is under 60), he must have worked out.

Was powerlifting very popular in Japan before the war ?

Tom


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