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-   -   Ashi Sabaki -- Ikeda style names (kanji, etc.) (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21973)

martin.sourada 11-15-2012 05:31 PM

Ashi Sabaki -- Ikeda style names (kanji, etc.)
 
Hi all, I'm trying to figure out correct names and translations for ashi sabaki in the style I practice -- Tada+Ikeda. There are couple of names we use in dojo and a couple of names in Ikeda's table B (it's not hard to google out) and another couple of names in sanshinkai letters (google finds it quickly). However, sadly, all of these are only said (dojo) or written in romaji (ikeda's table, sanshinkai) and I, being the keen-on-details person I am, would like to have as complete list of japanese names with correct kanji and translation as possible. In the following list most of the kanji is guessed based on the supposed meaning and in case of multiple names (old style from table B and "new" style from dojo) I'm not sure I connected the steps right. Here it is:

ashi sabaki (足捌き) = footwork
1. irimi ashi (入身足) = ushiro ashi irimi (後足入身) = enter, step forward (with back leg), hanmi switches
2. hiki ashi (引き足) = ?mae ashi hiki (前足引き)? = pull back, step backward (with front leg), hanmi switches, opposite of irimi ashi
3. hakobi ashi irimi (運び足入身) = ?mae ashi irimi (前足入身)? = progressively enter, step forward (with front leg), hanmi stays same
4. ?hakobi ashi hiki (運び足引き) = ushiro ashi hiki (後足引き)? = opposite of 3.
5. tenkan ashi (転換足) = ushiro ashi tenkan (後足転換) = diversion step, step a little out of attack line and then do a rotary step on front leg. Does tenkan mean divert (as found in dictionary) or something different (転 means rotation, after all...)?
6. yose ashi tenkan (?寄せ足転換?) = tenshin (?転身?) or mae ashi tenkan (前足転換)? = my guess based on guessed kanji is tenshin --> step out of attack line (usu 45°) and pull front feet towards the back one, however some sources seem to favour mae ashi tenkan here (while at the same time couple of lines earlier describe a tenshin move and say it's yose ashi tenkan)
7. kaiten (回転) = rotation, seems to be what ueshiba calls tenkai (i.e. just rotate on place without any steps)
8. ushiro tenkan (後転換) = my guess is that this is mae ashi tenkan, i.e. step a little out of attack line with back foot and rotate around back foot, changes hanmi. See 6. I'm also a little bit confused about the difference between mae ashi tenkan and hiki ashi, apart from the initial little step it seems same to me...
9. ayumi ashi (歩足) = normal stepping, well, contrary to the name, in our dojo we seem to use it for that kind of step where you do not change the direction of both feet and body (but feet switches positions), probably to distinguish it from irimi ashi.
10. okuri ashi (送り足) = leading step, front foot forward, then back foot forward -> what is the difference from mae ashi irimi? Is it a variant?
11. tsugi ashi (?次足?) = following step, back foot forward (touches front foot), then front foot forward

I put question marks around parts I am very unsure of, however that does not mean I'm convinced with the rest. It would be great if someone more knowledgeable/experienced helped me figure these out! :)

When it comes to translation I'm most interested in interpretations of tenkan -- some sources seem to translate it as rotation, or rotating step, pivot, ... but I'm leaning more towards the dictionary meaning of "divert" (even if this kind of move is always connected with pivoting movement).

Alex Megann 11-16-2012 01:21 AM

Re: Ashi Sabaki -- Ikeda style names (kanji, etc.)
 
Hi Martin,

It might be useful to mention that you are talking about Masatomi Ikeda (who used to teach in Switzerland and neighbouring countries), rather than Hiroshi Ikeda - the latter is much more often discussed on this forum, and people here might be confused!

I have happy memories of the several visits Ikeda Sensei made to England a few years ago. I was struck then by the fact that he gave names to more types of tai sabaki than I was aware of, though I wasn't aware that there was a "system".

Alex

martin.sourada 11-16-2012 05:20 AM

Re: Ashi Sabaki -- Ikeda style names (kanji, etc.)
 
Quote:

Alex Megann wrote: (Post 319218)
Hi Martin,

It might be useful to mention that you are talking about Masatomi Ikeda (who used to teach in Switzerland and neighbouring countries), rather than Hiroshi Ikeda - the latter is much more often discussed on this forum, and people here might be confused!

Indeed, thanks for mentioning it.

chris wright 11-19-2012 02:12 AM

Re: Ashi Sabaki -- Ikeda style names (kanji, etc.)
 
Hi folks, is there a difference between Kaiten and Tenkai?
Kaiten turning in place, without taking any steps.
Tenkai - I was once told that it involves a step forward from the back foot, with a hip turn of 90 to 180 degrees, the example i was given was the footwork often used against Yokomen uchi.

martin.sourada 11-19-2012 02:42 AM

Re: Ashi Sabaki -- Ikeda style names (kanji, etc.)
 
Quote:

Chris Wright wrote: (Post 319368)
Hi folks, is there a difference between Kaiten and Tenkai?
Kaiten turning in place, without taking any steps.
Tenkai - I was once told that it involves a step forward from the back foot, with a hip turn of 90 to 180 degrees, the example i was given was the footwork often used against Yokomen uchi.

I guess it depends on the used style -- every sensei uses slightly different names for the same steps. In the dojo I train (and probably everyone that follows Masatomi Ikeda-sensei style) we use "kaiten" for hips turn in place and "tenkan" for step with turn (you go forward with back leg but turn at the same time with the front leg kept in place), but e.g. Kisshoumaru Ueshiba in his book called Aikidou names hips turn in place "tenkai" (that's what we name as "kaiten"); step (with back foot) and then hips turn in place "kaiten" (that's what we call "irimi kaiten"); and step with hips turn at the same time as "tenkan" (same as in my dojo).

Also opinions differ, in my humble experience, as to whether include a little side step with front foot to the definition of tenkan -- in techniques it's usually there -- but some people prefer to stick with just turning-step for the basic form.

However this is the first time I see someone exchanging tenkai with tenkan. Most sources I've seen differ only on the use of tankai vs. kaiten. So either you've confused the two words together (they sound similar after all), or your style uses naming system I'm not familiar with. Both are possible ;)


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