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-   -   Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me! (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21963)

GeorgeDonnelly 11-12-2012 12:36 PM

Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
Hi

When training, I find that some partners, especially from other dojos (we're doing a seminar now) tend to talk a lot. Do this, do that, watch this, don't forget that.

Sometimes, as uke, they even try to move my body so that the technique is done correctly. IOW, I'm tori and yet they are moving my body for me, from their hold.

I'm sure it's well-intentioned but it gets distracting and frustrating. I feel like I need to have at least some space in which to find my own way. If uke is doing the technique for me, what am I learning, after all?

Not even the 7th dan I have trained with has done that. The lower dans will occasionally do it in minor ways but only after giving me lots of chances.

I'm mu kyu, been training a year. Anyone have any reactions to this? Thanks.

Travers Hughes 11-12-2012 03:10 PM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
Extend your finger (usually pointer, but middle one if it tickles your sense of humor) and see if you can poke them in the eye. If you can, they should shut up and focus on their own training. If they don't, poke them in the eye again. Either way, at least you know, and you have learnt something about distance and timing. Your training is your training, no-one else's (even though there is this whole collaborative thing going on). From my experience, the "uke that won't shut up" syndrome is a product of enthusiasm mixed with a little "rank euphoria" - yes, I'm guilty of it at times, too. We all are. People don't always realise they are doing it, so give them the benefit of the doubt. If it continues, consider what it is that is upsetting you - is it because you feel "it's my time to do the technique" and "its you time to receive"? That's a different issue, that is more about you than your partner, and one that I can't answer without knowing you. Both are great things to study and think about - best of luck!

James Sawers 11-12-2012 03:17 PM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
You are at a seminar to learn. Looks like you are learning, just that sometimes we get surprised at what we learn. Usually, you exchange partners after awhile, so bow to your partner, thank him/her, and move on to your next partner. Everyone else is there to learn too. So, everyone will probably make mistakes. So what, as long as you are not injured. When in doubt, talk to your sensei.

phitruong 11-12-2012 03:27 PM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
Quote:

Travers Hughes wrote: (Post 318971)
Extend your finger (usually pointer, but middle one if it tickles your sense of humor) and see if you can poke them in the eye. If you can, they should shut up and focus on their own training. If they don't, poke them in the eye again.

no no no! don't stick out the fingers. they might grab and pull and it would be bad, like this http://movieclips.com/mgi6-mystery-m...nt-and-deadly/
:)

robin_jet_alt 11-12-2012 03:27 PM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
Deal with it. You aren't very experienced, and they are trying to help. Let them.

danielajames 11-12-2012 04:27 PM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
I've seen a very effective atemi of 'hand covers partners mouth' used to counter this with amusing results. A personal favourite is to just continue attacking/ grabbing wrist and being uke till its time to change partners.

Lyle Laizure 11-13-2012 04:14 AM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
Quote:

George Donnelly wrote: (Post 318945)
Hi

When training, I find that some partners, especially from other dojos (we're doing a seminar now) tend to talk a lot. Do this, do that, watch this, don't forget that.

Sometimes, as uke, they even try to move my body so that the technique is done correctly. IOW, I'm tori and yet they are moving my body for me, from their hold.

I'm sure it's well-intentioned but it gets distracting and frustrating. I feel like I need to have at least some space in which to find my own way. If uke is doing the technique for me, what am I learning, after all?

Not even the 7th dan I have trained with has done that. The lower dans will occasionally do it in minor ways but only after giving me lots of chances.

I'm mu kyu, been training a year. Anyone have any reactions to this? Thanks.

This isn't uncommon in regular dojo practice. I agree that most that do this are well intentioned and truly want you to succeed but in reality they, IMO, diminishing your ability to learn. Making mistakes is part of the process. It is something that you can bring up to your Sensei but if it is during a seminar I would suck it up as to not cause a scene and try to find a partner or two that at least do it less than others.

I kid you not, during one training session there was a new young lady in practice. (So I think that the fact that she was a young lady sparked the situation though I have seen it happen with male students too. But it is unfair to place blame on the lady when it was the, IMO, the inappropriateness of the male instructors that jjust wanted to impress her.) I was the instructor at that moment. I demonstrated the technique and everyone got a partner to practice. The young lady was having difficulty so one of the other instructors went over to assist. As soon as that instructor turned his back to walk away another instructor walked up and proceeded to assist as well. And then again as soon as that one walked away another stepped up. This is too much instruction! Too much information, too much fine detail. Not only was she being given too much information to process she was being robbed of her opportunity to train altogether.

lbb 11-13-2012 07:33 AM

Re: Some partners talk too much and even want to do the technique for me!
 
Quote:

George Donnelly wrote: (Post 318945)
I'm sure it's well-intentioned but it gets distracting and frustrating. I feel like I need to have at least some space in which to find my own way. If uke is doing the technique for me, what am I learning, after all?

I'm going to be a bit of a devil's advocate here. I suspect you're talking about individuals who have "green belt syndrome" (from karate -- "No one knows more about karate than a green belt. Just ask one."). They have recently picked up a few clues, and are eager to share them with the world. But it's also possible that these people are your sempai, that they're seeing something wrong that they can help with, and that they're expected to help you in this way.

So...what are you learning? A lot, potentially. Someone "doing the technique for you" is another form of demonstration -- one in which you get to feel the technique.

When I trained as a ski instructor, and again as a whitewater kayak instructor, we were taught about four different learning styles that people use when learning a physical skill: the doer, who learns best by trying to do the technique; the watcher, who learns best by watching someone else do it correctly; the feeler, who learns best by being guided through the technique and feeling what the correct technique feels like; and the thinker, who learns best by understanding the theoretical basis for the technique. People seem to start out with a preference for one of these styles, and some people are really strongly locked into one style, to the point where they actively resist other modes of learning. The most successful learners are those who can use all four learning strategies, because they simply have more learning opportunities: when they see a demonstration, when they feel the technique, when they try to do it, and when they hear an explanation of it. Have you ever seen someone who always watches a demonstration with glazed eyes, and then inevitably turns to their partner and says, "All right...what are we doing?" That's not necessarily someone who is just spacing out and not paying attention: it's possibly someone who has never developed the skill of learning by watching.

Anyway, that's a bit of a digression. In your case, I think your best course of action is to look at your own question: "How am I supposed to learn?" You're supposed to learn using whatever opportunities are available. If you lack the tools to learn from the opportunity that's presented, you can try to change the situation, or you can try to expand your capability to learn in it. I'm not saying that as some kind of smarmy pollyanna-ish "Everything is a learning opportunity" platitude crap, either -- in any given situation, I think you have to make a judgment call. Maybe this is a situation where you can rein in your impatience and try to learn in a way that's less comfortable (for now)...and maybe it's a situation where you just have to say politely, "Can I just try to work through this? I think I'll learn it better that way." I have to use that line once in a blue moon, and I've never had it fail to be respected. Remember, the people trying to help you have probably not been taught how to teach in any systematic way; most likely, they're just trying to help you in the way that they themselves learn best. But if you find yourself using that line frequently, that's somewhat troubling.


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