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-   -   Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21954)

Dalaran1991 11-10-2012 03:08 PM

Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I have no access to a dojo so I can only train with a Yudashan friend who has 16 years of Aikido training. Granted, I respect him as my sempai, but the guy is an attention vampire and a lot of what he says make me really scratch my ear.

Every time we met a girl, he would try to ask if she had some training. If the answer is yes, then he proceeded to say "of course you do, I can figure that out a mile a way just by the way you walk". That has become kinda annoying and confusing to me, because, no pun intended, some of those ladies I think walk like an elephant. The others would say they have only trained for a few months. Other than that he keeps telling me that at a certain level in aikido he can sense the intention of everyone around him and tell with certainty if someone around him has training or not. During training he like to punch me midway when I come in, as I'm always uke. When I said "you are not supposed to do that" he keep saying "you have to sense my energy:grr: :grr: "

Is this just a pile of mumbo-jumbo that a narcissistic Shodan use to try to impress me and other lower ranking people? Or is there some truth to this? I know that aikido is all about situational awareness, but this "sensing the Force" thing sounds like BS to me. And frankly I'm vulnerable to his teaching since I'm only a 4th kyu, so I need to know when he is BSing to make sure I keep that part out of my ears.

Thanks!

Demetrio Cereijo 11-10-2012 03:13 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
This kind of sensitivity exists for real. That doesn't imply your instructor has it for real.

Dalaran1991 11-10-2012 03:25 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I would love to hear more about that. My old sensei has been training for 50 years and she said she got her wallet stolen twice. If 50 years of training don't give you the sensitivity to know people are trying to rob you, then I call BS on a shodan training for 16 years and claiming he has it.

Basia Halliop 11-10-2012 03:52 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I don't know whether in theory it's possible or not to read that kind of stuff from body language, etc. I suspect not reliably but I don't really know. Maybe some people can tell some of the time?

BUT either way, the way you're describing your sempai and what he's saying and when, it sounds a lot like showing off. Even if he could tell, to talk about it all the time for no reason sounds silly, like showing off. And to ask someone a question and AFTER they answer to say 'actually, I already knew that' is not so impressive. (And if he only asks it of women and not of men, well...)

Everyone has some faults, though. If he has good skills and is basically a decent guy, this kind of stuff is maybe the kind of thing where it's best to suppress a mental eye roll and just ignore it. Focus on the good stuff, etc. Unless this is just the tip of the iceberg and you really think he's maybe not such a good guy or not so skilled.

Demetrio Cereijo 11-10-2012 04:01 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 318810)
I would love to hear more about that.

You can start here: http://psychology.about.com/od/nonve...erbaltypes.htm

Quote:

My old sensei has been training for 50 years and she said she got her wallet stolen twice. If 50 years of training don't give you the sensitivity to know people are trying to rob you, then I call BS on a shodan training for 16 years and claiming he has it.
There are people who are "completely deaf", there are people who are not "deaf at all" and everything in between.

Maybe your instructor is a natural born reader of non verbal language who has fallen in a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (I can read because aikido) or maybe he can't read and is BS'ing you.

I have serious reservations about aikido training as the main cause of his sensibility (if he really has it) to non verbal cues.

Dave de Vos 11-10-2012 04:08 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I think a fairly large percentage of the students and teachers in our dojo believe it's possible to feel the energy and possibly the general nature of the intentions of another person while he is not in their view, not touching and not making obvious sounds.

I'm sceptical myself. I believe some people are very perceptive and I believe that training can improve it, but I don't believe in a 6th sense.

Demetrio Cereijo 11-10-2012 04:12 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Mr. Amdur writes here sometimes, maybe he could explain the issue better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KboCC5483zA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cia3wSkXx6s

Demetrio Cereijo 11-10-2012 04:16 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 318805)
During training he like to punch me midway when I come in, as I'm always uke. When I said "you are not supposed to do that" he keep saying "you have to sense my energy:grr: :grr: "

I missed that part. It seems the guy needs to take some ukemi from a competent nage, if you know what I mean.

gregstec 11-10-2012 04:56 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I think your sempai might be a bit of a whack job - however, some of the points being discussed here are very real.

Yes, you can feel people's intentions from away - when someone is angry at you, you will know it without any verbalization or contact; you just feel it - conversely, you can tell when people like you as well. Some people are more sensitive to this than others. IMO, it starts with being aware of what is going on around you and being receptive to your feelings. Law enforcement, military, and martial artists should learn to develop this skill - if they don't, best to find a new job or hobby.

As far as telling if someone is a martial artist, law enforcement, or military just by the way they move or act? absolutely can do - I have had extensive association and/or experience in all three of those environments and I can pick all of them out of crowd with just a cursory glance.

Oh, and the book 'Blink' that Ellis talks about in one of those youtube videos, is a fantastic book for info in this area.

Greg

gregstec 11-10-2012 05:12 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Dave de Vos wrote: (Post 318816)
I think a fairly large percentage of the students and teachers in our dojo believe it's possible to feel the energy and possibly the general nature of the intentions of another person while he is not in their view, not touching and not making obvious sounds.

I'm sceptical myself. I believe some people are very perceptive and I believe that training can improve it, but I don't believe in a 6th sense.

Hey Dave, believe it and and start learning to develop it :)

Best

Greg

ChrisHein 11-10-2012 07:06 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Sounds like he's providing the opportunity for you to learn every time he hits you on the way home. If you stay attentive, I bet, eventually you'll either:

A, learn how to never give him an opening to hit you.
B, learn to see it coming, and be able to counter.

Once you've achieved either of these, I would start trying to hit him back, and see how he does.

Lot's of very normal things can tell you if someone is going to attack you, it's not mystical. Pay attention and eventually you'll start to see these things. You probably see them now, you just don't pay attention long enough to use them.

good luck.

Dave de Vos 11-10-2012 07:24 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Greg Steckel wrote: (Post 318820)
Hey Dave, believe it and and start learning to develop it :)

Best

Greg

Hi Greg,

First things first. I already have all this other stuff to learn ;)

Rob Watson 11-10-2012 07:29 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 318805)
I have no access to a dojo so I can only train with a Yudashan friend

so I need to know when he is BSing to make sure I keep that part out of my ears.

Thanks!

If you can't tell when your friends are BSing or not you have no hope against real bad folks.

Demetrio Cereijo 11-10-2012 07:46 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 318822)
Lot's of very normal things can tell you if someone is going to attack you, it's not mystical. Pay attention and eventually you'll start to see these things. You probably see them now, you just don't pay attention long enough to use them.

Let me add that if real violence is not in your environment, identifying clues will be very difficult even if you pay attention, for you would not know what to look for. If you are not a natural you'll need training.

Quote:

Greg Steckel wrote:
As far as telling if someone is a martial artist, law enforcement, or military just by the way they move or act? absolutely can do - I have had extensive association and/or experience in all three of those environments and I can pick all of them out of crowd with just a cursory glance

.

I have a pair of funny anecdotes regarding military people in plain clothes thinking they were unnoticed.

Janet Rosen 11-10-2012 07:50 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: (Post 318824)
If you can't tell when your friends are BSing or not you have no hope against real bad folks.

:D

Many of us based on how/where we grew up and/or professional training can read well enough that it feels like a 6th sense, much as an experienced driver "just knows" when it's safe to make a complex maneuver in traffic...having said that, the OP's "teacher" sounds like he found a handy although probably unsuccessful "pickup line"....

gregstec 11-10-2012 08:02 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Dave de Vos wrote: (Post 318823)
Hi Greg,

First things first. I already have all this other stuff to learn ;)

Very true - but the process that helps to develop that 6th sense also helps to develop control of your intent; and we know how important that is in learning that other stuff :)

Greg

GMaroda 11-10-2012 09:05 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 318805)
I have no access to a dojo so I can only train with a Yudashan friend who has 16 years of Aikido training. Granted, I respect him as my sempai, but the guy is an attention vampire and a lot of what he says make me really scratch my ear.

Every time we met a girl, he would try to ask if she had some training. If the answer is yes, then he proceeded to say "of course you do, I can figure that out a mile a way just by the way you walk". That has become kinda annoying and confusing to me, because, no pun intended, some of those ladies I think walk like an elephant. The others would say they have only trained for a few months.

So what does he say when they say they've only trained a bit or not at all? I know I could tell who has training by asking them first too! I must be magic.

Yes, you can learn to read someone's intent. But it sounds like your friend is an ass with a bad pickup line. Even side show fortune tellers do better. Read up on cold reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading).

ChrisHein 11-10-2012 09:14 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 318827)
:D

having said that, the OP's "teacher" sounds like he found a handy although probably unsuccessful "pickup line"....

HA! I was thinking the exact same thing!

SeiserL 11-11-2012 06:22 AM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I was in a seminar once and was accused of being too pre-emptive.

I said they had started their attack.

Before the hand moves, the elbow moves. Before the elbow moves, the shoulder moves. The shoulder moves because we breathe in before we breathe out an attack. Before we attack, we see an opening and the eye pupil dilates to to minimum emotional arousal and visual recognition. When the eye got darker, I entered.

Learning to read minimal micro-expression is a skill. There even several apps for it. Read Paul Eckman or watch Lie to me. Some call it intuition. Some thinks its skill acquisition.

While I am unsure of an "extra" sense, I do believe we can gain extra-sensitive perception to minimal subtle cues (including on a kinestethic/energetic sense).

Basia Halliop 11-11-2012 11:15 AM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Before the hand moves, the elbow moves. Before the elbow moves, the shoulder moves. The shoulder moves because we breathe in before we breathe out an attack. Before we attack, we see an opening and the eye pupil dilates to to minimum emotional arousal and visual recognition. When the eye got darker, I entered.
This I can definitely believe. You can often see an attack faster by watching someone's face than by watching their actual hands...

Whether the sempai is randomly punching his junior in a way that's actually useful to the kohai or is just a childish way of saying 'ha ha I'm better than you' is something he'll have to figure out for himself, though. Or of course it could also be both (the motivations might be immature but you could still be able to learn from it).

I also like some of the comments above about learning to tell when people are BSing you! This is a valuable thing to learn to judge.

Michael Douglas 11-11-2012 11:41 AM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Quote:

Long Trinh wrote: (Post 318805)
...Is this just a pile of mumbo-jumbo that a narcissistic Shodan use to try to impress me and other lower ranking people?

Having completely understood this rear-end methodology (apart from the hideous seduction angle) do you really need to ask the forum?

Find someone else to train with.
If he had any of the "real deal" he wouldn't be so transparent with the bull and so keen to spew it around.

HL1978 11-11-2012 01:44 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
See kizeme.

James Sawers 11-11-2012 02:13 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
I sense from way over here that your "teacher" is BS...

Dalaran1991 11-11-2012 03:24 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Well, apparently his methods worked on the ladies... some of the time ;) Not very useful for aikido though. Especially since whenever I ask him how to do this and that his only response is "get better" :confused: :grr: I never ever get a chance to finish a technique because he knows how to kaishi waza out of it, so I never know if I'm getting better or not.

I'm pretty sure I can tell if someone in a bar/night club is about to throw a punch at me. I definitely can not tell when, back when I was training in Paris, my dojomate would sneak up behind me and table-flip or kubisime me. Although their intention was definitely not murderous, so prolly why I can't tell :D ?

I did considered stopped training with him, but that means I'll have to manage alone. Besides, I was wondering if that's simply my bruised ego talking and that I have to come to terms with the fact that there are stuffs in Aikido that I can't understand at this level.

But it seems that if his tutelage doesn't result in anything but frustration, I'm better off just working solo on my tai sabakis. :)

James Sawers 11-11-2012 03:39 PM

Re: Sensing energy from far away: is this achievable or BS?
 
Well, considering the fact that most person-to-person communication is non-verbal (up to 90+% I've read), then if someone can train themselves to consciously be aware of this (as in neuro-linguistic programming, for instance), then they may seem to be of the "Mentalist" type.

Still, from way over here your teacher just seems to be a player. As for his aikido "training", well, that's up to you, but I do not see it as productive.


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