AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   Non-Aikido Martial Traditions (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78)
-   -   I Was Wrong (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21899)

Richard Stevens 10-23-2012 09:39 AM

I Was Wrong
 
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.

Rob Watson 10-23-2012 09:55 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Richard Stevens wrote: (Post 317748)
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.

Train more, post less. It will be alright. Winding, winding, spiral - puuuulllllling and back bow (trust me - this is way funny in person).

phitruong 10-23-2012 10:20 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Richard Stevens wrote: (Post 317748)
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.

come on! he couldn't have known about those stuffs. he spent most of his time fishing, and not even good at it! everyone knows that fishing involved the use of explosive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSEuD...eature=related therefore, his knowledge of IP/IS is suspect :D

Chris Li 10-23-2012 10:28 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Don't worry, the same thing happened to me. :D

Best,

Chris

DH 10-23-2012 10:32 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Me too. I thought it was all B.S.
Then I learned
Then...I thought the model was a secret to one art!!
Then two.
Oops!! :o
Dan

Carsten Möllering 10-23-2012 11:15 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
That's why I love live:
There are gates to be opened.
In a lot of senses.
Everyday.
Change.

Sorry for my english. In German this could be a poem ... :-)))

morph4me 10-23-2012 01:12 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Welcome to the club :)

Rob Watson 10-23-2012 02:14 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Yup, the real pickle is so what are you going to do now?

Chris Li 10-23-2012 02:20 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: (Post 317800)
Yup, the real pickle is so what are you going to do now?

Beer, and a lot of it. Might not help, but it can't hurt, right? :D

Best,

Chris

Marc Abrams 10-23-2012 02:31 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 317802)
Beer, and a lot of it. Might not help, but it can't hurt, right? :D

Best,

Chris

I try not get stuck in a rut, so I switch between beer, sake, red wine and some nice mixed drinks......:D

Regards,

Marc Abrams

Ernesto Lemke 10-23-2012 03:26 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
That's all fine and dandy but meanwhile I'll be stuck sipping Chardonnay with mr. DH the next couple of days....that's what this IP/Aiki fest seems to call for. And I like my beer...:(
Cheers

gregstec 10-23-2012 05:34 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
I have never been wrong in my life - just not as enlightened as I should have been on many occasions is more like it :D

Greg

gregstec 10-23-2012 05:36 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Marc Abrams wrote: (Post 317804)
I try not get stuck in a rut, so I switch between beer, sake, red wine and some nice mixed drinks......:D

Regards,

Marc Abrams

All within the same hour too - you lush :D

Marc Abrams 10-23-2012 05:44 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Greg Steckel wrote: (Post 317827)
All within the same hour too - you lush :D

Hey! I resemble that re-marc ;)

Regards,

Marc Abrams

gregstec 10-23-2012 05:49 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Marc Abrams wrote: (Post 317828)
Hey! I resemble that re-marc ;)

Regards,

Marc Abrams

Oh, you are just so cute when you get witty :crazy:

JW 10-23-2012 08:34 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Richard Stevens wrote: (Post 317748)
After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong.

Hi Richard- I love me a story. Any chance you can describe a little more the change of heart that you experienced? Was it sudden, like he told you to grab his wrist, and then he shocked and amazed you? Or was it more of a cumulative revalation? Thanks!

Howard Popkin 10-24-2012 05:05 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Thanks for the kind words :)

Great group !!! Lots of hard work .

Hope to see you guys soon,

Best wishes,

Howard

Sacha Cloetens 10-24-2012 08:29 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Richard Stevens wrote: (Post 317748)
In regards to IP/IS I was an extreme skeptic. After spending a weekend training with Mr. Popkin I readily admit I was completely wrong. If you have an opportunity to train with him or Joe Brogna, run, don't walk. He had great things to say about Dan Harden as well.

Nah.... before "the others" were wrong.... & now.... "they" are still wrong.... :-)
enjoy
SC

Richard Stevens 10-24-2012 08:40 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Jonathan Wong wrote: (Post 317833)
Hi Richard- I love me a story. Any chance you can describe a little more the change of heart that you experienced? Was it sudden, like he told you to grab his wrist, and then he shocked and amazed you? Or was it more of a cumulative revalation? Thanks!

I was a bit dumbfounded from the get-go. He started off by having us show one of our basic waza and then he showed us what it was like with "aiki". We can get it to work even with a great deal of resistance, but he did it against full resistance seemingly effortlessly. Everything else was just as impressive. His abilitiy to "connect to the ground" was unbelievable. The experience made me reconsider a lot of my views.

I have to say though, the fact that he is down the earth and seems genuinely interested in helping others improve made it such a good experience.

SteveTrinkle 10-24-2012 09:09 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
once Ithought Iwas wrong,but Iwas mistaken

Krystal Locke 10-24-2012 10:48 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
So, it was aikido, but better? You mention his connection with the ground, and ability to easily perform techniques against profoundly resistant partners. Can you go into more detail?

Most importantly, was he able to convey to you how he did those things? Did he teach you what to do, and have you been able to apply what you were taught effectively?

I am interested. If I had the free time from work, I'd check out a seminar for sure. Folks I know and respect are saying good things about the folks teaching these seminars, but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice. So I am not fully sold on the idea yet. Can you provide anything that would tip the balance?

Chris Li 10-24-2012 11:06 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 317864)
Folks I know and respect are saying good things about the folks teaching these seminars, but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice.

That's because it can't be done. :D

Not that there won't be things that you can immediately add on, but basically speaking, this stuff is not an add-on. It's not some extra tricks and twists that you can add on to your regular training and go along on your way.

What we're talking about is a fundamental change in the way that you use and condition your body - that change affects everything else and, eventually, is expressed in the technique (it does take some time).

So...rather than doing an "Aiki technique", you do Aiki and the technique expresses that quality of your body (and mind). If that makes sense...

Best thing is to go try it out! Alan Beebe can't be too far from you, and Dan gets down there.

Best,

Chris

Pat Togher 10-24-2012 11:13 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Howard Popkin Sensei and Joe Brogna Senseis are also frequently in the Seattle.
I know it's a fair distance from you, but they are truely excellent teachers.

Pat

Richard Stevens 10-24-2012 11:31 AM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Krystal Locke wrote: (Post 317864)
So, it was aikido, but better? You mention his connection with the ground, and ability to easily perform techniques against profoundly resistant partners. Can you go into more detail?

Most importantly, was he able to convey to you how he did those things? Did he teach you what to do, and have you been able to apply what you were taught effectively?

I am interested. If I had the free time from work, I'd check out a seminar for sure. Folks I know and respect are saying good things about the folks teaching these seminars, but are not saying that they have taken useful stuff out of the seminars and applying the techniques in their own practice. So I am not fully sold on the idea yet. Can you provide anything that would tip the balance?

Good questions. I don't want to speak out of place, but he did provide us with specific exercises to develop these "abilities". We are in the process of joining the Ginjukai as a study group (consisting of both Aikikai and Dentokan members) to try and further develop these skills under Mr. Popkin's guidance.

While I most certainly won't claim to have developed any "aiki" skills after a mere two days or introduction/practice I find myself at a place where:

1. I know it isn't BS
2. It can be clearly applied to my Jujutsu waza (or more accurately my waza applied to it)
3. My waza will always be severely lacking without it

As I mentioned before I was completely skeptical of the whole IP/IS argument. I expected Mr. Popkin to simply have polished, excellent Jujutsu. It was much more than that. I think the entire weekend he only showed us one kata from Daitoryu. As much as I hate to say this, it has to be felt.

Interestingly I felt more correlation between what Mr. Popkin does and my Iai than I do with my current Jujutsu practice.

Krystal Locke 10-24-2012 12:07 PM

Re: I Was Wrong
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 317866)
That's because it can't be done. :D

Not that there won't be things that you can immediately add on, but basically speaking, this stuff is not an add-on. It's not some extra tricks and twists that you can add on to your regular training and go along on your way.

What we're talking about is a fundamental change in the way that you use and condition your body - that change affects everything else and, eventually, is expressed in the technique (it does take some time).

So...rather than doing an "Aiki technique", you do Aiki and the technique expresses that quality of your body (and mind). If that makes sense...

Best thing is to go try it out! Alan Beebe can't be too far from you, and Dan gets down there.

Best,

Chris

I am not looking for add-ons to my technique. I have twenty shitty tricks to make my uke move or hurt more, and I am looking to rid my aikido of those tricks in favor of clean, effective technique. I see what you're saying, move the body differently, ingrain different internal responses to stimulus, and the techniques will naturally change, and you believe they will be more effective and flow more naturally from the stimulus. I am way alright with that. I'd like to learn more about that.

But at the end of the day, yes I am looking to learn that to improve my aikido, in the sense that I am making something that is me and mine, and I will use it in my life, and my expression of my physicality, my way through life with energy that works well. Not as an add-on, but as a change in foundation. And to impress the hot chicks in my aikido class. And beer.

Yes, It Has To Be Felt. When several of my friends are telling me something is the goods, and I read other folks saying they're having good results, I am curious, and want a look. I'm still going to be a skeptic, the metaphors better just be metaphors and be useful metaphors, and I had better feel a quantitative as well as qualitative difference. But I will give it a look. Thanks for avoiding any hucksterism or condescension.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:15 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.