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-   -   Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21873)

Dave Gallagher 10-17-2012 03:48 PM

Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
" I had lunch with an old Karate training buddy. Our conversation mostly about the "good old days" of karate training and how today's young students could not handle what we went through drifted to other arts. When I said that I had done Aikido he laughed and said "it figures that an old hippie like you would get into Aikido, the Hippie martial art".
I have never given this any thought but he said that over the years he has heard this about Aikido.
Now I'm thinking about it.

Anyone have thoughts on this ? I have not heard this before.

aiki-jujutsuka 10-17-2012 04:10 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Aikido has a strong philosophical foundation and thus appeals to people looking for an MA that satisfies them ethically/philosophically as well as physically. For someone looking for a more physically 'robust' art regardless of ethical considerations then Aikido may appear hippyish. Krav Maga springs to mind, it seems to be the MA of choice for true 'street effectiveness' by many people because its techniques are brutal. However, while brutality may strengthen confidence in one's ability to protect themselves, sometimes it goes beyond lawful reasonable force and doesn't take into consideration the ethical ramifications of using such excessive force. As martial artists we have a duty to use our art and skills responsibly and wherever possible, humanely.

Mary Eastland 10-17-2012 04:23 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Aikido was listed in the last Whole Earth catalogue.

James Sawers 10-17-2012 05:06 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Possibly more "New Age"....Can't see a hippie doing aikido.....

sakumeikan 10-17-2012 05:17 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Ewen Ebsworth wrote: (Post 317407)
Aikido has a strong philosophical foundation and thus appeals to people looking for an MA that satisfies them ethically/philosophically as well as physically. For someone looking for a more physically 'robust' art regardless of ethical considerations then Aikido may appear hippyish. Krav Maga springs to mind, it seems to be the MA of choice for true 'street effectiveness' by many people because its techniques are brutal. However, while brutality may strengthen confidence in one's ability to protect themselves, sometimes it goes beyond lawful reasonable force and doesn't take into consideration the ethical ramifications of using such excessive force. As martial artists we have a duty to use our art and skills responsibly and wherever possible, humanely.

Dear Ewen,
Looking for a physically robust martial art are we? Having sampled at first hand the waza of some senior uchi deshi of O Sensei I can state categorically my body ached from head to toe.Some of the longer serving guys in the U.K. also know what I mean about robust practice. Cheers, Joe.

Rob Watson 10-17-2012 06:26 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

James Sawers wrote: (Post 317410)
Possibly more "New Age"....Can't see a hippie doing aikido.....

Did the hippies actually do anything?

Andrew Macdonald 10-17-2012 08:54 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
i think it is true that much of aikido has that reputation, i donlt really like the word 'hippie' but to keep everyone on th same page, if it is seen as a hippy martial art then hippies join then what does it become, a self fulfilling prophecy. equally krav maga is seen as a more 'robust' MA well thats ok your going ot attract more robust people but agian there is a spectrum within that group as well.

as for the old uchi deshi, i don; tthink we can look to them to give us the indication of how the art i studied/ seen today

there are alot of pople out there doing good solid strong aikido, and also people doing flowers and daisy chain aikido, unfortunalry i think that latter are a little more vocal about what they are doing because they think they are bringing some sort of spirtual teaching ot the world.

on reasonable force, it is not the techniques that make unreasonable force (except in a few extreme example) it is the teaching behind the techniques, doing a hard irimi nage to someone on concrete, or infact any throw on some one who doesn;t know how ot land could do very serious damage. dependingon the country you live in this might or might not be considered reasonable force, if you threw them on the concrete then started stamping on them then i imagine most places would see that as a little OTT

Dave Gallagher 10-17-2012 09:20 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote From Ewen Ebsworth:
"For someone looking for a more physically 'robust' art regardless of ethical considerations then Aikido may appear hippyish"

......I don't know where you have trained but my training in Aikido was as "physically Robust" as any Karate or Kendo class I have ever been in.

James Sawers 10-17-2012 09:21 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: (Post 317416)
Did the hippies actually do anything?

Well, yeah, maybe, could be.........later man........

Janet Rosen 10-17-2012 10:16 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

James Sawers wrote: (Post 317410)
Possibly more "New Age"....Can't see a hippie doing aikido.....

I have never considered myself "new age" having no patience with self absorbed "seekers," metaphysical bs, playing with crystals or listening to awful noodling music...but dang it I'm an old hippie and last time I checked I was "doing aikido." :)

James Sawers 10-17-2012 11:51 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 317430)
I have never considered myself "new age" having no patience with self absorbed "seekers," metaphysical bs, playing with crystals or listening to awful noodling music...but dang it I'm an old hippie and last time I checked I was "doing aikido." :)

Dang, wrong again.....must be all those (medicinal) drugs (or age....no drugs....no.....eh..!) affecting my perceptions......

oisin bourke 10-17-2012 11:57 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 317430)
I have never considered myself "new age" having no patience with self absorbed "seekers," metaphysical bs, playing with crystals or listening to awful noodling music...but dang it I'm an old hippie and last time I checked I was "doing aikido." :)

Janet, you're obviously koryu, and not gendai :D

The founder was a hippy, at least when he got older IMO. And what's so bad about being a hippy anyway? It"s not like they started wars or anything. And is hippy spelled with a "y" or an "ie"?

James Sawers 10-18-2012 12:27 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Oisin Bourke wrote: (Post 317433)
Janet, you're obviously koryu, and not gendai :D

The founder was a hippy, at least when he got older IMO. And what's so bad about being a hippy anyway? It"s not like they started wars or anything. And is hippy spelled with a "y" or an "ie"?

As you get older, it is spelled with a "y"......

aiki-jujutsuka 10-18-2012 12:40 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
I was using the term robust euphemistically, which is why I put it in caption marks 'robust'. I wasn't criticising Aikido, I was referring to people who think martial arts have to be brutal or ultra violent to be effective, which is why I used the example of Krav Maga. Please don't take offence.

Carsten Möllering 10-18-2012 04:41 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
aikidō came to France in the beginning fifties.
aikidō came to Germany around the 68th (Is this understandable in the US? 1968 marks the beginning of a deep change of society in Germany.) And it flourished in the seventies.
aikidō in France was very different from aikidō in Germany!

It's my understanding since long time that different ways of understanding aikidō refer to different social or better historical contexts. I remember that years ago aikidō very often was mentioned in esoteric journals here. Often it was taught to be kind of spiritual dance of connecting energies of two persons.
Interesting enough: The people brought aikidō to Germany were judōka and police men. After only few years the people who took up aikidō were mostly what could be called "hippies".

phitruong 10-18-2012 06:33 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
didn't know that i am a hippie. ok, so i am full of hips or hips full or fuller hips or ... well you know what i meant. i guess because we like to get in-touch with people vs out of touch. look at this way, with aikido, you can travel around the world, meet other nice aikido folks, then koshi them into the floor, then afterward go out partying. :)

lbb 10-18-2012 07:10 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Dave Gallagher wrote: (Post 317404)
Anyone have thoughts on this ?

Sure. When people's understanding of a subject is at best superficial, many of them reach for a handy, simplistic and generally inaccurate label to describe it. That's all.

Dave Gallagher 10-18-2012 08:33 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
As I said in my original post I am an old Hippie. Dropped out, Tuned in and turned on in about 1967.Did not start karate until the mid 1970's so I was a hippie first. Found Aikido in the early 1990's if I remember correctly. For me Aikido was a better fit than the other arts. In this case my friend was right. It's just that I never thought of it as being good for people with the old hippie mentality, which I no longer have. Well perhaps a bit of it remains.
ps- by that hippie mentality part I mean the concepts of Peace and Love. That does remind me of O'Sensei.

Janet Rosen 10-18-2012 09:30 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Oisin Bourke wrote: (Post 317433)
Janet, you're obviously koryu, and not gendai :D

The founder was a hippy, at least when he got older IMO. And what's so bad about being a hippy anyway? It"s not like they started wars or anything. And is hippy spelled with a "y" or an "ie"?

I've been hippy since I was a teenager. Of course I have also been a hippie since then... :)

jonreading 10-18-2012 12:20 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Anyone have thoughts on this ?
Yes, I hear this quite a bit.
1. Aikido is one of few martial arts that actually has a mission statement-like goal to bring about world peace, etc.
2. Aikido has promoted to a counter-culture market more than other markets.

Call it what you will, but Aikido made a decision to become socially-politically engaged (I believe there was a thread earlier discussed the relevance of aikido in this regard). Then we promote predominantly to the counter culture that will take up our banner and wave it. We reap what we sow.

Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 317448)
Sure. When people's understanding of a subject is at best superficial, many of them reach for a handy, simplistic and generally inaccurate label to describe it. That's all.

I think Hippie is the perfect term to describe the counter-culture movement. I think many aikido people believe Aikido is a component to a larger social solution. I think the label is accurate. The books I've read imply that the real Hippies who sought to bring progressive social change were anything but simple. I think you can't read 10 posts on Aikiweb without someone throwing out "peace", "harmony", "love" or some other term used to forward a Utopia-state ideology. How about a silver bridge to the middle-weight UFC championship? Nope. World peace; peace between nations. A path to the Olympics? Nah, just a path to enlightenment.

So what do we do. We stick up our nose at our sister arts. We don't care what they think. Except they are our peers. They are fellow experts in the field. Their opinion should matter and we should be saying, "what do you think he means, 'hippie's art'"?

Let me confirm that I do not think it bad that we have Hippies. As a warning though, we need to seal the art and set of a vapor bomb to take care of them because where you find a few hippies, you're soon to have more.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip.../cartmans-plea

Diana Frese 10-18-2012 07:13 PM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Not sure if I was, or am, a hippie (sure that I'm hippy, now that the Chief Budo Babe has confessed the same)

But I am a Trekkie. This sounds like The Trouble with Tribbles. Can't remember what Captain Kirk did about them, give them their own planet?

Actually, I read with interest tales of the Hut Dojo in Britain, and the ki no nagare styles too. Coming from an age when Aikido was not well known, I am very happy that it has spread far and wide.

As Matthew Gano always says, Gambatte!

Dazzler 10-19-2012 08:06 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Diana Frese wrote: (Post 317500)
Not sure if I was, or am, a hippie (sure that I'm hippy, now that the Chief Budo Babe has confessed the same)

But I am a Trekkie. This sounds like The Trouble with Tribbles. Can't remember what Captain Kirk did about them, give them their own planet?

Actually, I read with interest tales of the Hut Dojo in Britain, and the ki no nagare styles too. Coming from an age when Aikido was not well known, I am very happy that it has spread far and wide.

As Matthew Gano always says, Gambatte!

I think he did give them their own planet ....like guinea pigs crossed with snooker balls wern't they. I'm sure they were behind the original idea for gremlins! ....yuk....breeding everywhere.

Zoom...back in the 60's and 70's just for a second there. ;-)

Dazzler 10-19-2012 08:10 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trouble_With_Tribbles

I was 5 or 6....and I remember it. Scarey !

lbb 10-19-2012 08:20 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
Quote:

Jon Reading wrote: (Post 317470)
I think Hippie is the perfect term to describe the counter-culture movement.

I don't think there's one discrete "counter-culture movement", and I don't think it's a useful label.

Quote:

Jon Reading wrote: (Post 317470)
I think you can't read 10 posts on Aikiweb without someone throwing out "peace", "harmony", "love" or some other term used to forward a Utopia-state ideology. How about a silver bridge to the middle-weight UFC championship? Nope. World peace; peace between nations. A path to the Olympics? Nah, just a path to enlightenment.

I'm not going to argue about what's going on inside other people's heads; that's their property, not mine. I'm not one to burden aikido by making it the vehicle for all things good or whatever. But consider this: the words "peace", "harmony" and "love" have degrees of meaning and are used in all those degrees, not just in promotion/pursuit of a "Utopia-state ideology". Ever hear the phrase "peace and quiet"? Peace, harmony and love have very quotidian meanings; who's to say that that's not the sense in which they're most commonly used by the aikidoka who use them in connection with their practice?

Quote:

Jon Reading wrote: (Post 317470)
So what do we do. We stick up our nose at our sister arts. We don't care what they think.

Got a mouse in your pocket?

Quote:

Jon Reading wrote: (Post 317470)
Except they are our peers. They are fellow experts in the field. Their opinion should matter and we should be saying, "what do you think he means, 'hippie's art'"?

I already asked myself that. My conclusion is that it's most likely a case of dismissive labeling. Beyond that, I don't feel the need to analyze it, and certainly not navel-gaze about it. Dismissive labels are not based on true knowledge and thoughtful analysis, and they don't shine any light on any subject. Devoting brain cycles to tossoff remarks as if they were thoughtful, meaningful insight strikes me as a waste of time.

Andrew Macdonald 10-19-2012 08:34 AM

Re: Aikido, the Hippie Martial Art
 
of course the phrases non-voilent martial art and other such oxymorons that are attributed to aikido will attrat people who want o learn how to throw people around with little apparent effort.


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