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-   -   Kyokushin + Aikido (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21678)

Bengal107 08-23-2012 03:11 PM

Kyokushin + Aikido
 
Hey guys, I'm Tino from Montreal, Quebec. Nice to be part of this site :) :triangle:

I've been looking at martial arts up close and from a distance for many years but was suffering through addiction like cigarettes and marijuana and others too. It's a year I'm sober and now it will be 3 weeks I'm off the cigs. I feel great. Starting school in 2 weeks and moved back in with my parents. It's a bit of a drag but I'm getting my own gym in the basement which will be cool. Will practice kickboxing and so on maybe some weights, but mainly working on my striking prowess. :square:

I want to join both Kyokushin and Aikido. I know one at a time would be ideal, that's why I want to start with Aikido since it's lighter. and I'm no stranger to hard work. I played sports all my life and was captain of my football team, trained in the gym 6 days a week, built like a fire-hydrant. :straightf

Mixing kyokushin with aikido would be cool for me, I can't explain why, they're just both my fav martial arts. I just want to know what you guys think :circle:

I know I might get some it's not the practitioner it's the style, which is cool, but I know that some styles work for certain situations. Like aikido can totally give the advantage if you don't want to hurt the person...like a co worker or girlfriend or whatever. kyokushin is more like...for sport, just to see who's the best (but more for fun in my case) since I have that part of me that shouts out every now and then.

I'm also aware that both styles utilize different halves of the brain, one being the passive side and the other the assertive side. one yang one yin. i feel like my journey through martial arts, I would have to become proficient in both yin styles and yang...but maybe through that I will know which is my better half inside and out. you get it? :confused:

so I want to know what you think. Thanks:circle:

lbb 08-23-2012 04:21 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
All other considerations aside, there is a practical difficulty, that being the time it takes to train. If you do not have six evenings per week that you can devote to training on an ongoing basis (as opposed to "train real hard for a month or two" - this is a permanent thing), I would not try to train in two different styles, certainly not as a beginner.

Dave de Vos 08-23-2012 04:24 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
I don't think many aikiweb members have experience with kyokushin. That's why I respond, even though I only have a little experience in both arts. I've only been practising aikido since 2010 and I practised kyokushin for half a year in 2011.

I like both arts. They are quite different. Obviously aikido generally uses softer contact in training and it tends to focus more on defense than offense.

In kyokushin you accept that you will get punched and kicked. Your training toughens your body to a degree that it can take some punishment while you try to deliver more punishment to your opponent. I think aikido spends more effort in trying to avoid taking punishment. But even tough I'm not built like a fire hydrant, many are in kyokushin as well as in aikido.

I liked kyokushin, because I wanted to know how to punch and kick and how it feels to be punched and kicked, without getting into bar fights. Kyokushin offers a controlled environment where you can challenge and test yourself. To some degree, because there's no grabbing, no holding, no pushing and no punches to he head (only kicks). Other than not punching the head, wearing a gi and thin gloves or no gloves, and having a very strict etiquette and morals, I think kyokushin is quite similar to kickboxing. I know many from the dojo where I trained (http://www.karateclubnoritsu.nl/) went to kickboxing, came from kickboxing or did both. Kickboxing happens to be quite popular in the Netherlands (we even had a few K1 champions).

I only trained for half a year, so I was still only a beginner when I quit (red belt). But at least I did get some training in punching and kicking. In aikido class we hardly ever train it. If we do, it's usually a class from a teacher that has some background in karate or kickboxing.

Kyokushin classes tends to give you a lot more bruising than aikido classes, especially in the beginning when your body hasn't toughened yet. After a year or so, it gets better (or so I'm told) but I think bruises will always be a part of training, even for advanced players. Bruised thigh muscles from not blocking low kicks, bruised forearms from blocking punches to he body, and may other bruises. Sometimes also abrasions of the knuckles from training bare knuckle punching on cushions. But these bruises are usually superficial, and they fade away within a couple of days days. Anyway, I always felt great after class!

All in all, I think aikido and kyokushin are almost opposites. But I enjoyed the combination while it lasted.

graham christian 08-23-2012 04:24 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
I think you should do it according to what you think and then in a few months of doing so share here what you found.

Having introduced yourself maybe you could start a blog and update your experiences as you go along, that would be interesting.

Well done by the way.

Peace.G.

Bengal107 08-23-2012 05:09 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
thanks guys. well as for your response Mary Malmros, I am a beginner to Aikido, very very little experience...but kickboxing I do have experience and a bit of ability. I want to train many times per week and school only gets in the way of one course on tuesday. The only thing that scares me is my lungs. I've been a heavy smoker for 3 and a half years and finally quit...I'm worried that I won't have the lungs to carry on in class. That's my only worry. I'm pretty sure I have enough toughness for Kyokushin and yes Dave de Vos I think they're exact opposites which is exactly why they're my top picks for styles to learn. In martial arts I'm trying to understand the principle deeply. I was bullied and I have bullied, too...and I think martial arts is the best way for me to be a good person overall. My dad bullied me and when I got older I beat him up pretty good...we're friends now. We still argue sometimes but overall we share good humor so...all in all it's a "victory" in life, to me anyway.

Hey maybe I should start a blog!! By the way thanks guys for your quick responses. I'll try and come up with new interesting topics as much as I can. Bye for now!!

robin_jet_alt 08-23-2012 05:14 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
There was someone who trained at my old dojo who had 4th dan in kyokushin. She did quite well. I think the trick is to keep them separate in your mind. If you train in aikido with a kyokushin mindset, you will struggle

Bengal107 08-23-2012 05:28 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
yeah i just read an article the one right below mine in the forum listing. from "budogirl". it was very interesting. maybe I'm not "trusting the technique" of Aikido. But then again, I did hear somewhere on the net that O'Sensei believed that an aikidoka should be proficient (black belt onward) in another art like judo or karate. All I know is, I really want to learn all about Japanese martial arts. But for some reason I don't have much interest in traditional weaponry other than a Katana or Tanto...dunno why?

chillzATL 08-23-2012 08:42 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
When I first started training, my buddy who got me into aikido got into kyokushin around the same time. He did both for a long time until Kyokushin finally took over and he moved to Hawaii to train pretty much full time. I trained with them a few times and it fits as well as any striking style as far as I recall. You'll definitely gain some good skills to apply to your aikido training and probably a very different perspective (as important as the skill IMO). I say go for it!

I may have stuck with it myself, but after going a few times I did some leg kicking drills with this woman and she broke the Sh!% out of my legs. My legs looked like Fabers after the Aldo fight (look it up if you don't know). She broke me! It wasn't just the merciless unending pain, I sucked it up and fought through an entire night of it, but also the reality that no matter how hard I kicked her, she just didn't care... and I kicked the snot out of her... repeatedly and she just smiled me off and chopped into my thigh like Jack bringing down the bean stalk.... merciless woman... but at least I got this story out of it...

so yah, go for it, it'll do you good.

Chris Evans 08-24-2012 09:43 AM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
I have some, limited, exposure to kyokushin karate.

I wear shinpads and 8oz gloves when full contact sparring, jissen kumite, meaning, I've not tasted sport kyukushin/Enshin (Sabaki) sparring with no pads, bareknuckle.

kyokushin does have one limitation: does not condition well on defending head/face vs. punches, so to truely apply kyokushin then should "test" yourself with MMA sparring or muay Thai/International kickbox sparring, eventually.

my previous sparring experiences and tounement exposures did not condition me to defend vs. kicks to legs, when drained of energy and "steaming" with pain after few rounds, so was a quite a surprise to be knocked on to the mat, in both kyokushin (& also in MMA), often by young kyokushin men with mere months of training. Some times I have wondered if I'll walk normally ever again, when those vicious kicks impact very close to my knee: Oie!

kyokushin's satisfying and enlighten cross training to develop stand up full contact timing and distancing for an aikidoka, but don't let that get to your head...or the lack of that basic exposure "blind" you to the sport-kyokushin limitations

Osu

Chris Evans 08-24-2012 10:15 AM

If you train in aikido with a kyokushin mindset,
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 314814)
There was someone who trained at my old dojo who had 4th dan in kyokushin. She did quite well. I think the trick is to keep them separate in your mind. If you train in aikido with a kyokushin mindset, you will struggle

If you train in aikido with a kyokushin mindset then you might develop practical aikido, as long as you now when to be completely relaxed and supple?

Bengal107 08-24-2012 04:08 PM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
i feel like kyokushin is ok for punches to the head. in kyokushin, the fighters condition their hands more than mma. i feel like mma is one big mcdojo honestly. why don't they call it pankration? isn't that what it's supposed to be? also the f*** you aura of mma turns me off, that's why i don't touch the stuff anymore. maybe plain western boxing could help my bobbing, weaving and overall head-hunting game...but not mma i cant stand mma. even though at the same time, mixing kyokushin and aikido is in the realm of mixing martial arts...i don't see it as the same deal whatsoever. the only MMA i ever see myself going for would be daidojuku (Kudo) from japan but even then it doesn't have the same allure for me that kyokushin does.

robin_jet_alt 08-24-2012 04:54 PM

Re: If you train in aikido with a kyokushin mindset,
 
Quote:

Chris Evans wrote: (Post 314841)
If you train in aikido with a kyokushin mindset then you might develop practical aikido, as long as you now when to be completely relaxed and supple?

It was being completely relaxed and supple that I was talking about.

phitruong 08-25-2012 07:02 AM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
ran across this article http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/3/27...y-costly-issue

playing rough is great when you are young and believed the invincibility and indestructibility of youth (been there done that). you will pay sooner or later. in this country, you will pay a lot later. every time the weather changes, it will remind you.

Chris Evans 08-29-2012 10:50 PM

MMA
 
Quote:

Clementino Gisondi wrote: (Post 314855)
i feel like kyokushin is ok for punches to the head. in kyokushin, the fighters condition their hands more than mma. i feel like mma is one big mcdojo honestly. why don't they call it pankration? isn't that what it's supposed to be? also the f*** you aura of mma turns me off, that's why i don't touch the stuff anymore. maybe plain western boxing could help my bobbing, weaving and overall head-hunting game...but not mma i cant stand mma. even though at the same time, mixing kyokushin and aikido is in the realm of mixing martial arts...i don't see it as the same deal whatsoever. the only MMA i ever see myself going for would be daidojuku (Kudo) from japan but even then it doesn't have the same allure for me that kyokushin does.

MMA experiences vary.

I've sparred with guys with years of BJJ base and solid kickboxing (with leg kicks) skills and fitness.

Really insightful on how to adapt my karate training -- such as the want of more anerobic conditioning and the reliableness of punching over kicking: kicking, what I had thought was my forte, drained a lot of energy vs. fit MMA players.

David Orange 08-30-2012 09:35 AM

Re: Kyokushin + Aikido
 
Don't let the slamming nature of kyokushin fool you, though. Mas Oyama trained in daito ryu with Yoshida Kotaro--the man who introduced Morihei Ueshiba to Sokaku Takeda. I used to wonder why the "self-defense" section in Oyama's books were almost all aikido techniques. That's why.

Also, kyokushin incorporates (or used to) a nice "nagashi" tai sabaki, which can set you up for an outside or inside position on the attacker.

The leg kicks tend to be the real shocker for people who've never run into kyokushin or MMA. You either know how to take that or you don't. And if you don't...it puts you in another dimension.

Less famous, perhaps, but maybe even more effective, is their tendency to come out of the starting gate with a jumping front kick--not to the head, but straight to the solar plexus. From a maai that normally requires edging toward one another, the kyokushin covers the "edging in" space for both fighters and drives a straight front kick to the gut, with plenty of room for extension. I've seen this on tape, probably the Strongest Karate series. But here's a nice treatment of Mas Oyama's early days, proving himself in Japan, that was made in Korea within the last decade. Oyama had just come from some months training alone in the mountains. It's stylized, but I think this pretty well shows the spirit of the kyokushin and Oyama really did stuff about like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBjmuuNcsqA

Kyokushin tournament fighting. Watch this and say those guys are not as relaxed as almost anyone I've ever seen in aikido:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...FY-YYLcwk&NR=1

Mas Oyama himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtqQx...eature=related

At the yoseikan, whenever I was the attacker, I normally came in with the kyokushin shuffle, putting neither foot too far forward, both hands up by my head, getting close enough to launch the actual attack with either foot and/or hand. I liked to drop a hand and bring it up in an uppercut, or just shoot the hand from beside my head, directly to their chest/solar plexus or chop down with either hand to their collar bone, or turn that move into yokomen uchi. The few people who taught me about kyokushin were all direct students of Mas Oyama and he was still in his late fifties when I was training with them. Everything else I learned was from his books and my own practice.

So, in my experience, kyokushin fit well with aikido training. I used it in class. But this was yoseikan aikido, in Japan, under Minoru Mochizuki and I don't know if you could do that much anywhere else in the world.

I think there are some old yoseikan guys up your way, though. Roger Roy has a dojo in Sherbrooke. And Michel Martin may be around Montreal.


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