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-   -   Heart in martial art ? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21660)

lars beyer 08-18-2012 11:15 AM

Heart in martial art ?
 
Hello dear Aikiweb members

Some time ago I watched a documentary on modern clinical studies of the heart that has made
me think a bit..

It was interesting and the subject of interest in relation to these questions I am asking here is
the fact that the heart is equipped with neurons, just like the brain and is communicating via neurons
to the brain and that the heart during repeated tests was measured to react prior to the brain upon various stimuli. The heart was actually setting off emotional reactions well before the brain became aware of the various stimuli, the heart recieved stimuli from the various sensory systems and relayed
these stimuli to the brain for further processing.. thats at least how I understood it..

Also in the studies of heart transplants there is a recurring pattern that points towards the fact that
a person with a new heart will often change his / her character personality and skillset and adopt skills that the previous owner of the heart had- for instance the ability to sing along a piece of classical music previously unknown to the person. The conclusion is that the heart has itīs own memory and this memory is transplanted into the new owner.

Theabove have been met with skepticism by the establishment and several doctors interviewed were not able to explain the results of the tests being made. Unfortunately I donīt remember the title of the documentary -I will try to find it if I can.

In my study of aikido I have come across several instances where the heart is being mentioned
as a key element in doing various techniques.
I donīt know much about the subject and I ask if anyone can shed some light on this in relation
to martial arts practise. How do we use the heart in Martial Arts practise and is it possible to
react instantly by "listening" to the heart without mental processing ?

Cheers
Lars

PS. I donīt know whether or not the documentary actually tells the "truth", but in relation to
Aikido I feel it rang a bell somehow so please bear with me..

SeiserL 08-19-2012 07:01 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Sounds like an interesting documentary.

Many people mention heart in training more metaphorical as intention, intensity, and commitment.

OYOH, our body is a neuro-network that beats, and breathes, and functions without conscious attention, thought, or direction.

We talk about muscle-memory and the heart is a muscle that can be developed.

I read an article the other day about the difference in brain activity between a powerful karate punch by a black belt versus brain activity from a beginner.

I often read about neuro-science studies in mental health.

I think we will find more as neuro-sciences studies move forward.

lars beyer 08-19-2012 08:06 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 314494)
Sounds like an interesting documentary.

Many people mention heart in training more metaphorical as intention, intensity, and commitment.

OYOH, our body is a neuro-network that beats, and breathes, and functions without conscious attention, thought, or direction.

We talk about muscle-memory and the heart is a muscle that can be developed.

I read an article the other day about the difference in brain activity between a powerful karate punch by a black belt versus brain activity from a beginner.

I often read about neuro-science studies in mental health.

I think we will find more as neuro-sciences studies move forward.

Thanks for answering, I guess the topic is very diverse and my questions are not really specific..
At one point I couldnīt get a specific opening right during a paired aikiken kata, and I was told to use the heart for that particular opening. It made perfect sence on an intuitive level, and worked well, so I guess I am just trying to look for an explanation of some sort.. hmm.
Cheers !

aiki-jujutsuka 08-19-2012 08:57 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Just did a quick google search and found this article that seems to be discussing the very same things as this documentary you saw. It is a fascinating read as I had no idea the heart was this complex!

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Heart,%...ed%20Salem.pdf

lars beyer 08-19-2012 09:11 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Ewen Ebsworth wrote: (Post 314500)
Just did a quick google search and found this article that seems to be discussing the very same things as this documentary you saw. It is a fascinating read as I had no idea the heart was this complex!

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/Heart,%...ed%20Salem.pdf

Yes, I also found it in the first couple of hits on a google search, it seems to be dealing with bridging the gap between science, psychology and spirituality through neuro science.
Very interresting, but since itīs not widely accepted knowledge (to my very limited knowledge about the subject) at least I would be carefull not to jump to any conclusions.. but very interresting indeed. I was not aware either that the heart is such an complex organ, and neither the rest of the body btw. but very interresting to study :)
Cheers !

lars beyer 08-19-2012 10:21 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
I believe I found the documentary I was talking about here

Shadowfax 08-19-2012 11:42 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Mary Heiny sensei often speaks of opening up ones heart as an important first step in aikido practice. Fascinating article by the way. Thanks for bringing it up. Something to think on for a while. :)

lars beyer 08-19-2012 03:20 PM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 314494)
Sounds like an interesting documentary.

Many people mention heart in training more metaphorical as intention, intensity, and commitment.

OYOH, our body is a neuro-network that beats, and breathes, and functions without conscious attention, thought, or direction.

Please excuse my lacking english skills, but what does OYOH mean ? :confused:

Tom Verhoeven 08-19-2012 07:56 PM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Lars Beyer wrote: (Post 314503)
Yes, I also found it in the first couple of hits on a google search, it seems to be dealing with bridging the gap between science, psychology and spirituality through neuro science.
Very interresting, but since itīs not widely accepted knowledge (to my very limited knowledge about the subject) at least I would be carefull not to jump to any conclusions.. but very interresting indeed. I was not aware either that the heart is such an complex organ, and neither the rest of the body btw. but very interresting to study :)
Cheers !

I would not draw any "new age" conclusions, but it has been proven that the heart is much more then just a muscle or a pump. As such it is not so much "not widely accepted knowledge", but rather a matter of not fully understanding what is going on. It is part of what is called "new biology". New Biology goes against the old mechanistic view of the body and of nature as a whole. New Biology is about understanding how one part of that whole connects with an other part of that whole. It has tremendous consequences for the way we treat forests, plants, gardens, animals and humans. The problem is that this approach is fairly young, new biology started in the 80's - 90's and that the knowledge is still very incomplete. But everyone agrees that the human body is far more complex then we ever imagined. The heart is a good example. I have no doubt that new biology in time will have a positive impact on Aikido and other Budo. Although I do not know if one could really receive memories of someone else's life, when getting a heart-transplant?

Tom

dps 08-19-2012 08:32 PM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Lars Beyer wrote: (Post 314520)
Please excuse my lacking english skills, but what does OYOH mean ? :confused:

Ditto.

dps

Abasan 08-19-2012 09:08 PM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
On your other hand maybe? Shouldn't that be OTOH instead?

Anyway... We practice with Aiki no Kokoro in mind...

lars beyer 08-19-2012 11:34 PM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Ahmad Abas wrote: (Post 314542)
On your other hand maybe? Shouldn't that be OTOH instead?

Anyway... We practice with Aiki no Kokoro in mind...

What does that mean ? :)

lars beyer 08-19-2012 11:52 PM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Tom Verhoeven wrote: (Post 314536)
I would not draw any "new age" conclusions, but it has been proven that the heart is much more then just a muscle or a pump. As such it is not so much "not widely accepted knowledge", but rather a matter of not fully understanding what is going on. It is part of what is called "new biology". New Biology goes against the old mechanistic view of the body and of nature as a whole. New Biology is about understanding how one part of that whole connects with an other part of that whole. It has tremendous consequences for the way we treat forests, plants, gardens, animals and humans. The problem is that this approach is fairly young, new biology started in the 80's - 90's and that the knowledge is still very incomplete. But everyone agrees that the human body is far more complex then we ever imagined. The heart is a good example. I have no doubt that new biology in time will have a positive impact on Aikido and other Budo. Although I do not know if one could really receive memories of someone else's life, when getting a heart-transplant?

Tom

Hi, I donīt know whether or not a donors memoirs would be partially transferred to a recipient other than what the documentary I mention above tries to prove ( I didnīt make the link obvious by underlining ) but if you klick "here" in post #6 there is a link to youtube where the whole documentary is available. In the documentary there are several recipients who describes the changes they have experienced about their skills and various preferences in life cross referenced with the donors skills and preferences. Also the article that is mentioned by aiki-jujutsuka talks about the possibility..
One of the reasons a heart transplant is possible is related to the fact that a heart has itīs own "brain" so well before itīs connected to the recipients own brain (this takes cionsiderable time after the actual implant) it controls itīs own heartrate.. so in a way itīs autonomous.. But I donīt know about these things other than what I have learned from the documentary.. I have googled the documentary and itīs produced for channel 4 AFAIR and it did start some discussion back in 2006 when it was released but I havenīt read anything that compromises itīs integrity as such.. but as you say itīs new biology..

Alex Megann 08-20-2012 07:59 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Lars Beyer wrote: (Post 314551)
I have googled the documentary and itīs produced for channel 4 AFAIR and it did start some discussion back in 2006 when it was released but I havenīt read anything that compromises itīs integrity as such.. but as you say itīs new biology..

Channel 4? Didn't they broadcast "the Global Warming Swindle"? :)

Alex

lbb 08-20-2012 08:39 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
I'm guessing that a lot of the heart's "special" nature could be explained by understanding the autonomic nervous system, and (I'm guessing) possibly the nature of cardiac muscle. Yes, the autonomic nervous system is neural tissue, and yes, cardiac muscle is muscle tissue, but they also have unique characteristics. You can't somehow train the rest of your body, the rest of your nerves and muscles, to take on these characteristics.

As for the metaphorical use of the term "heart", that seems to be to be referring to characteristics of the human consciousness - which, call me Betty Buzzkill if you want, but I can't imagine residing anywhere but in the brain.

lars beyer 08-20-2012 09:17 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Alex Megann wrote: (Post 314557)
Channel 4? Didn't they broadcast "the Global Warming Swindle"? :)

Alex

Actually I am not sure, but I watched it on Danish television and they are as crooked or not as the next one..
:)
But anyway it seems the producer of the film is a small independent producer which would be normal for
that kind of topic. Itīs listed in IMDB, look it up if you feel like.
Cheers

lars beyer 08-20-2012 09:36 AM

Re: Heart in martial art ?
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 314559)
I'm guessing that a lot of the heart's "special" nature could be explained by understanding the autonomic nervous system, and (I'm guessing) possibly the nature of cardiac muscle. Yes, the autonomic nervous system is neural tissue, and yes, cardiac muscle is muscle tissue, but they also have unique characteristics. You can't somehow train the rest of your body, the rest of your nerves and muscles, to take on these characteristics.

As for the metaphorical use of the term "heart", that seems to be to be referring to characteristics of the human consciousness - which, call me Betty Buzzkill if you want, but I can't imagine residing anywhere but in the brain.

Ok Betty Buzzkill, I only know one Betty, and she is black !
:)


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