AikiWeb Aikido Forums

AikiWeb Aikido Forums (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/index.php)
-   Websites (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21377)

Chris Li 06-03-2012 08:28 PM

Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris

Henrypsim 06-03-2012 10:31 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
I have seen a lot of Aikido books (perhaps not enough). Most of them refers to techniques and techniques. None of them could decode what O-sensei was trying to say until you, an Aikido "heretic" comes along (as far as I know) and begin to decode what O-sensei's teaching of which most Aikido instructors either do not understand; feels that their cup of tea is full; too proud to admit ignorant; do not know how to teach/explain or do not get a damn. Sincerely wish you would write a book! (NOT intended to insult any individual, dojo or style of martial arts. Just my own opinion. Remember our constitutional right of free speech please)

Ernesto Lemke 06-04-2012 01:09 AM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
+1

PeterR 06-04-2012 03:27 AM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 310267)
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris

Chris - small question.

This cosmology is it separate and distinct from Omoto-kyo or intimately tied in. I know I am asking for a fine line to be drawn in a somewhat hazy landscape but it is a question that springs to mind.

There is more than one close student that felt a close study of that sect would help to understand Ueshiba's aikido. I know Tomiki made a point of it but I never got a clear indication whether he found it particularly useful.

David Orange 06-04-2012 07:27 AM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 310267)
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris

Enjoy?

Chris, your work is absolutely fantastic--and I don't mean in "fantasy" terms. As Henry says, I hope you will write a book and bring out these amazing translations in light of the new understanding of internal development aiki. I will certainly buy it.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go back through all your earlier posts and drink them up!

Great work.

Thanks immensely.

David

Chris Li 06-04-2012 09:16 AM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Peter Rehse wrote: (Post 310277)
Chris - small question.

This cosmology is it separate and distinct from Omoto-kyo or intimately tied in. I know I am asking for a fine line to be drawn in a somewhat hazy landscape but it is a question that springs to mind.

There is more than one close student that felt a close study of that sect would help to understand Ueshiba's aikido. I know Tomiki made a point of it but I never got a clear indication whether he found it particularly useful.

That's a good question - the short answer is that I wouldn't bother unless you're specifically interested in it, but that a good working knowledge of Shinto in general is useful (essential?) to decipher what Ueshiba was talking about.

Omoto-kyo can be different in some ways from regular Shinto, and Ueshiba's personal interpretations can get a little different from that, so it gets complex.

Best,

Chris

Chris Li 06-04-2012 09:25 AM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

David Orange wrote: (Post 310291)
Enjoy?

Chris, your work is absolutely fantastic--and I don't mean in "fantasy" terms. As Henry says, I hope you will write a book and bring out these amazing translations in light of the new understanding of internal development aiki. I will certainly buy it.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go back through all your earlier posts and drink them up!

Great work.

Thanks immensely.

David

Thanks David!

Best,

Chris

Tom Verhoeven 06-04-2012 02:38 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 310267)
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

Enjoy,

Chris

This fits in neatly with the scroll of the tiger.

Was wondering about the pronunciation of "Aikiju". Do you have any references as to where I could find that pronunciation? I have always been taught that it was "Aikito", "to" being an alternative for "ju". It then becomes a pun as "to" sounds like "do" (tao). Which is part of the word-play with figures of Kiichi Hogen.

Tom

Chris Li 06-04-2012 02:52 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Tom Verhoeven wrote: (Post 310349)
This fits in neatly with the scroll of the tiger.

Was wondering about the pronunciation of "Aikiju". Do you have any references as to where I could find that pronunciation? I have always been taught that it was "Aikito", "to" being an alternative for "ju". It then becomes a pun as "to" sounds like "do" (tao). Which is part of the word-play with figures of Kiichi Hogen.

Tom

The person that I spoke to about this (who trained at hombu with Ueshiba in the 60's) pronounced it "do" (without even going through the "to" stage), so it becomes one of those interminable Japanese puns :D

I left it as "ju" rather than going into the longer explanation.

Best,

Chris

Tom Verhoeven 06-04-2012 05:09 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Just to add to the story and for what it's worth; In his book "The secrets of Aikido" John Stevens published a photo of O Sensei pointing to a kamidana (page 29). The foto is part of a series of photo's published in "Training with the master" by John Stevens and Walter von Krenner (page 82 - 83). One of these photo's can also be seen here: http://zenwood.com/woodwork.html.
While these photo's were being taken O Sensei explained that this little shrine was meant for the Aiki cross.
Tom

PeterR 06-04-2012 05:58 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 310301)
T
Omoto-kyo can be different in some ways from regular Shinto, and Ueshiba's personal interpretations can get a little different from that, so it gets complex.

Of that I am sure.

My interest in Aikido lies closer to home - I have no ambition to think like or be like Ueshiba. Still the beliefs of the old man seemed to resonate down to levels I am more directly involved in so your explanations do help to put things in context.

There is an Omoto-kyo shrine at Shodokan Honbu visited by their priests. Tomiki studied the works intensively and Nariyama for a time taught at Ueshiba M.'s old dojo at the sects headquarters. So it is there but luckily I don't have to worry about it too much.

Cheers

davoravo 06-05-2012 01:34 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Hi

Another great post. I suspected Juji might have multiple layers of meaning (Physical, ki, spiritual) like Osensei's other writings. Particularly I though Juji might refer to energy crossing from one side of the body to the other at an intersection, maybe front-to-back.

So, I hunted down the Aunkai definition. This interview very similar stuff on 6 directions etc to Osensei. See 6 th post.

http://www.rumsoakedfist.org/viewtop...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

David Orange 06-07-2012 10:18 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
Quote:

Christopher Li wrote: (Post 310267)
New Blog Post! Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross - Izanagi and Izanami cross the Floating Bridge of Heaven:

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/...y-of-the-cross

In the "Floating Bridge" article,I find support for my interpretation of "masakatsu agatsu" not as "victory over oneself" but as "victory of being oneself," more or less.

From the Floating Bridge article:

"Ame-no-minakanushi was the first deity to appear in heaven - in other words, the "Boss" who stands in the center. ...Ueshiba says that you yourself are the "Boss" - as in 我即宇宙・宇宙即我 " I am the Universe, the Universe is me.". This is a very simple, but very important and powerful point."

To me, masakatsu agatsu means winning the right or freedom to be oneself. It's the right we wanted to gain when we sought out martial arts.

And this part made me think of Itsusu no Kata in judo, as demonstrated by Kyuzo Minfune:

"The "Boss" stands on the Floating Bridge uniting the opposing In-Yo forces and moves in a spiral..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBv2lJdH7vc

The third exchange is what I mean, but it also appears in the fifth.

Very interesting points.

Thanks.

David

davoravo 06-15-2012 01:14 AM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
The cross may refer to anatomc structures in the body at least in qigong. A cross can be drawn with a vertical line between the heart and the tandien and a horizontal line between the two kidneys. The centre of the cross is the Mingmen which is on the spine between L2 and 3 although some texts state the Mingmen is in the right kidney (even older texts say in both kidneys.

My apologies if all of this is obvious to everyone but me. It is all new stuff to me that I have been reading up on inspired by The blog.

The kidneys are water and the heart is fire. The kidneys provide yin and yang qi which is combine into Qi by the Mingmen. The heart also represents heaven while jing (essence) from the kidneys descends to the tandien and represents earth.

The goal of some qigong is to reach sagehood or virtue (te) as described in the tao te Ching. One who reaches such a state is in harmony with heaven and earth. This is achieved by balancing fire and water and combining the energies of jing (earth or physical essence), qi (yin and yang or fire and water) and Shen (heaven or spirit). To achieve this one opens and closes the mingmen by performing specific in-out breathing which is co-ordinated with physical movement while using the will (zhi housed in the kidneys) to focus the mind (Shen housed in the heart) on the Mingmen or the tandien.

The Mingmen is the "gate of life" but is also the female origin or mysterious female referred to in thetao te Ching. The Mingmen controls the triple or 3 level burner which is the 3 levels of energy interchange and conversion in the body. Because of its importance in the alchemic process the triple burner has been referred to poetically as the bridge of heaven.

Energies move between the body by ascending and descending, condensing and evaporating, expanding and contracting (also translate as exiting and entering), they also divide and reunite

davoravo 06-16-2012 09:00 PM

Re: Morihei Ueshiba and the Way of the Cross
 
This is a quote for David orange

“I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.” - Aristotle


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:56 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.