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-   -   Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido? (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20856)

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 08:43 AM

Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Hi everyone I'm new to Aikido and Aikiweb so I thought I might make good use of my account.
One must consider that against, say a typical karatedoka's kicks do we have enough practice to defend against it. I know kick defence techniques exist but how often are they practiced at your Aikido dojo, not being 'essential' to Aikido training? Basically are they practiced enough?

mrlizard123 02-13-2012 09:34 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Edward Sudall wrote: (Post 302937)
Hi everyone I'm new to Aikido and Aikiweb so I thought I might make good use of my account.
One must consider that against, say a typical karatedoka's kicks do we have enough practice to defend against it. I know kick defence techniques exist but how often are they practiced at your Aikido dojo, not being 'essential' to Aikido training? Basically are they practiced enough?

Welcome to Aikiweb!

It seems this is a variation of a common question along the lines of if Aikido is appropriate for "real life" protection/self defence/fight/against another MA/etc.

These topics have been widely debated and I think that the answers are; Yes, No and Maybe - take your pick :D

The answer is specific to each person's specific training regime.

It's a divisive subject and has spawned a seemingly un-killable thread over here along with quite a few others...

I'm of the opinion that whether something is "effective" or not is very much affected by the artist more than the art; so whether we can respond effectively to a karetka's kick is an individual question I think.

Janet Rosen 02-13-2012 09:37 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Gee, real life and a karateka's kicks? Here in my town not too much street crime or bar brawls by skilled karateka but maybe your town is different?

mrlizard123 02-13-2012 09:54 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Janet Rosen wrote: (Post 302942)
Gee, real life and a karateka's kicks? Here in my town not too much street crime or bar brawls by skilled karateka but maybe your town is different?

Janet,

On the mean streets of Brighton kicks from Karateka are the least of ones troubles, there are far scarier things; I'm not sure about aikido in this scenario...

Rich


and

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 09:59 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Thanks it is good to be here, very interesting especially the linguistic aspect: so much vocab!
Yes, that summises it really well for me. I think Aikido would be effective in such a scenario but only after much more practise and mastery than another martial art; the impression I have anyway. That is the beauty of it, I would like to train for such an instance, rarther than just in the dojo or dimensions of 'average' Aikido training. The merger of martial arts that went into its creation is the appeal and it is in the nature of the art to be pacifistic. The defence techniques apply to the person not the art, I would like to train for as many of the techniques as possible not just ones I would normally use in the dojo. As cliche as it can sound I would like as close to the O'sensei training which was less defined than a set syllabus of training.
I have certainly grasped the, the "one better than they other" dynamic ( a waste of time) and vying with the principles of Aikido, I think. I wanted to investigate if it was part of the average dojo training to counter kicks; there were so many techniques created by O'sensei. Are they done justice in the more modern Aikido I have begun to learn about, for instance, in the Yoshinkan Aikdio I am to study.
That being said it is all so new!

phitruong 02-13-2012 10:01 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Rich Hobbs wrote: (Post 302945)
Janet,

On the mean streets of Brighton kicks from Karateka are the least of ones troubles, there are far scarier things; I'm not sure about aikido in this scenario...

Rich


sure you can do aikido with this. just blend and be one with the pavement and extend ki in all directions. :D

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 10:03 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
I still stand by the fact the best thing to do when confronted in 'real life' is to run away; especially when it is an elephant!

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 10:04 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Couldn't sound more inglorious, but true I think.

lbb 02-13-2012 10:10 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
The last time I was kicked by a karateka was when I was studying karate.

I did ask my sensei why we don't train against kicking techniques. The short answer was, because hardly anybody here has training in how to kick, and the ukemi's a bear. It could be done, but with most students the carnage potential is rather high. And, if you're talking about preparing from a "real life" attack...well, when was the last time you saw someone effectively use a kick as an attack in "real life"? It's not that kicking attacks can't be effective, but they take practice, something that the sort of knuckleheads who tend to get in fights are not about to do.

Patrick Hutchinson 02-13-2012 10:40 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Elvish aiki vs elephant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=132WIdxvgdo
No problem

Demetrio Cereijo 02-13-2012 10:40 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Forget about karate kicking techniques. Soccer kicks, well, that's another story.

And learn how to defend from "Combat Feng Shui", it seems there are very skilled practitioners of the ancient and effective art of moving furniture for combative purposes in your area.

Shadowfax 02-13-2012 11:26 AM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
The most realistic scenario on which you will have to use aikido to protect yourself on the street is tripping and falling. The best defense against cracks in a sidewalk jumping out and grabbing you is good ukemi. ;)

Not much concern around here about being attacked by a karateka around here either.

Another thought on aikido and pacifist behavior. One thing I have really gotten to understand is that aikido is not a passive art. Just because one does not seek out a fight does not mean that one is not capable of violence.

As sensei said in class last night. If you think that you are one of the meekest and mildest people on earth you probably need to do some serious self examination.

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 01:22 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Well, the world has lots of knuckleheads. Our way of life is being globalised, martial arts aren't all good (why O'sensei tried to make Aikido as pacifistic as possible). Karate as an example is very popularised and despite vying against the principalties of martial arts like that of Karate there is always a risk of being assulted with any kind of attack: it isn't the fault of the art but its practiconars that can, can(cliche) use it for 'evil'. Stephen French is a well known example of this. Can the techniques in Aikido truly defend oneself against an experinced (having sparred) assulter? Yes of course, there is a way but is that way well known? Is there a name for the techniques of such?
Somewhat irrelevent: to reveal how nerdy I can be but heck the 'elephant' in the video is a Mumak/Oliphant/Mumakil.
-Massive Lord of the rings fan.

kewms 02-13-2012 01:38 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Edward Sudall wrote: (Post 302966)
Well, the world has lots of knuckleheads. Our way of life is being globalised, martial arts aren't all good (why O'sensei tried to make Aikido as pacifistic as possible).

This is twice that you've claimed aikido is a pacifistic art. Please explain why you believe this. In particular, please explain how *any* effective martial art can be pacifistic. If you truly believe that aikido is a pacifistic art, why are you studying it, and why are you concerned about real life applications?

Katherine

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 02:06 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
I am for peace and self development aiki-budo; as pacifistic as possible. The aim I have is to unify myself with the universe: ki, to gain a higher sense of self awareness without hurting people, it is not the aim in Aikido to hurt but defend unlike, say Muay Thai where it is to fight (in only some elements admitidly). :o

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 02:08 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
As for real life it is the application of a real life situation which gives a sense of purpose to study, not just in the Dojo but life as a whole, just my opinion.

Alic 02-13-2012 02:15 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
There is a simple thing to do if you want to do something like practice against real life karateka, judoka, kendoka, chinese kenpo, muay thai, etc...

Ask your sensei about self-defense class!

I did and we did a whole day of training against various street situations and against attacks from other martial arts. We learned how to kick and how to deal with kicks, as well as a short intro into battle tactics and maai. The energy level was intense as we were told to go on the fly using our own knowledge to create a defense, and many of us (myself too) were surprised at just how much we actually knew, since we don't usually ever get to do things like that.

Another way is to simply find a friend who is learning some other art, and ask to train with them. You can teach them reversals and they can teach you how to defend against punch, kicks, elbows, knees, headbutts, etc.

Don'tlookandsee 02-13-2012 02:21 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
That is a great idea, I have a friend that does Taekwondo so.

Alic 02-13-2012 02:41 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Show him ukemi, best damn thing you can give to another martial artist :)

sakumeikan 02-13-2012 02:43 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Edward Sudall wrote: (Post 302980)
I am for peace and self development aiki-budo; as pacifistic as possible. The aim I have is to unify myself with the universe: ki, to gain a higher sense of self awareness without hurting people, it is not the aim in Aikido to hurt but defend unlike, say Muay Thai where it is to fight (in only some elements admitidly). :o

Dear Edward,
Your aims for,motives and reasons for taking up Aikido are all very altruistic.Very commendable,but what do you do if and when you meet somebody who is not on your waveband and simply wants to mess you about?Are you going to read him some Aikido philosophy, tell him about unifying with the Universe or what, or you do not want to hurt him?This in my opinion is a misunderstanding of Aikido principles.This pacifist mode is the reason why people perceive Aikido as being airy/fairy , men prancing around with skirts, twirling broom shanks.No , when faced with potential danger to myself and others,I would rather
be effective [hopefully ] than be spiritual /pacifist.If this means causing someone pain so be it.In my book the aggressor deserves what he gets. Maybe giving the bad lad a taste of his own medicine might make him think before he tries to mug /hurt somebody else? Cheers,Joe.

Marc Abrams 02-13-2012 02:58 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Edward:

If your training involves sound (in other words, real) martial principles of movement, the kick can be handled very easily. I have heard the chorus saying that Aikido cannot work against a karateka, wrestler, BJJ, etc. . In many places, those criticisms are accurate. There are dojos in which the teachers and students have studied a number of martial arts and bring that experience to bear in their Aikido training and teaching. In general, those teachers and their students seem to do quite well applying Aikido. People get what they put into their training and can receive what their teachers can deliver. That means that in an imperfect world, filled with all of us flawed humans, you pick carefully, train hard and hope for the best...

In "real life", sh*t happens that you might never be prepared for, so the larger purpose is to use your training to create the safest, most caring environment that you can enjoy in the moment. Spending an inordinate amount of time worrying about the worst possible things that might happen to you is simply a waste of precious time, particularly when you consider that life is a fatal illness.....

Marc Abrams

Demetrio Cereijo 02-13-2012 03:24 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
"I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

phitruong 02-13-2012 03:45 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Edward Sudall wrote: (Post 302937)
One must consider that against, say a typical karatedoka's kicks do we have enough practice to defend against it. I know kick defence techniques exist but how often are they practiced at your Aikido dojo, not being 'essential' to Aikido training? Basically are they practiced enough?

first, do you know how to kick? if not, then go learn how to kick. after that then talk about doing kick defense.

kewms 02-13-2012 03:51 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 303008)
first, do you know how to kick? if not, then go learn how to kick. after that then talk about doing kick defense.

More generally, practice with people who are competent in the attack that you want to defend against. Actual experience beats speculation every time.

Katherine

Marc Abrams 02-13-2012 04:07 PM

Re: Is there enough practice for 'real life' in Aikido?
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 303008)
first, do you know how to kick? if not, then go learn how to kick. after that then talk about doing kick defense.

Hey Phi

Do you know how to defend against these kicks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gzfj...E8A9B98B8E71BA

:eek: :D :eek: :D

Marc Abrams


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