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-   -   Without O'Sensei's wisdom (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082)

Bruce Baker 06-26-2002 06:11 PM

Without O'Sensei's wisdom
 
What if you were not allow to fall back on the wisdom of O'Sensei's notes, interviews, and guiding vision for Aikido ... could you still acquire the right insight for continued training in Aikido?

To provide clarity:

You would be allowed to read and research the teachings and life of O'Sensei, but you must acquire your own insight for Aikido within your own insights and perspectives.

batemanb 06-26-2002 06:29 PM

Do what?

Sorry Bruce but that seems contradictory to me. Surely, if you were allowed to read and research O Sensei`s teachings, you are falling back on them to some level. In doing so, and in the abscence of anyone else to guide you, I think that you would likely be influenced by his writings to some extent.

The way of Aiki is much more than doing technique in the dojo, many are quite happy and content with that level, but to gain insights into Aikido, such as O Sensei had would be a very difficult task. One would have to read and learn many of the old Japanese scripts pertaining to Shinto, study and understand the Kojiki, study Omoto Kyo, Daito Ryu and the rest, to stand any chance of fathoming what it was that O Sensei found and believed Aikido to be.

Tony-kun 06-27-2002 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by batemanb
Do what?

Sorry Bruce but that seems contradictory to me. Surely, if you were allowed to read and research O Sensei`s teachings, you are falling back on them to some level. In doing so, and in the abscence of anyone else to guide you, I think that you would likely be influenced by his writings to some extent.

The way of Aiki is much more than doing technique in the dojo, many are quite happy and content with that level, but to gain insights into Aikido, such as O Sensei had would be a very difficult task. One would have to read and learn many of the old Japanese scripts pertaining to Shinto, study and understand the Kojiki, study Omoto Kyo, Daito Ryu and the rest, to stand any chance of fathoming what it was that O Sensei found and believed Aikido to be.

Gaining insights into Aikido the way O'Sensei had might not be all that hard for some people. To me it seems O'Sensei explains how to reach his level in many of his quotes. But it probably depends on the person, like how open minded he is and his interest in gaining such insights. I don't always see Aikidoists always keeping their mind as bright and clear as the vast sky, the great ocean, and the highest peak, empty of all thoughts(I got bits and pieces of it from one of O'Sensei's quote). But it will surely take alot of practice and dedication, and that's probably all you need.

I could go on and on about this with other quotes but I think he explains it all, or just enough for one to figure out the rest oneself. However it will most likely help to read alot of- what batemanb stated before.:)

SeiserL 06-27-2002 11:01 PM

In-sight by definition is your own internal sight or point of view. O'Sensei and others can only share their own in-sights. O'Sensei only pointed a direction for us to follow. The process and discovery will always be our own.

Until again,

Lynn

Tony-kun 06-28-2002 03:14 PM

I think you might've misunderstood me. But oh well, that's what I meant.

batemanb 06-28-2002 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony-kun
I think you might've misunderstood me. But oh well, that's what I meant.
I think that applies to your view of my post too.

The point that I was coming from, is that Aikido is a "way", much more than technique in the dojo. If I just do techniques in regular practice, yes of course I can gain insights into how the technique works, how to improve it etc. What I can`t find by just studying technique is insights regarding the philosophy that makes Aiki a do. I have yet to visit a dojo that teaches any of the philosophy, that doesn`t mean that there aren`t any, just I haven`t been fortunate enough to find one yet (I am trying to be careful here because some may consider the techniques are part of the philosophy, which they are :freaky:, I am referring to the other stuff).

With that in mind, in order for me to find insights into the philosophy or other stuff, if we do not have access to O Sensei`s insights as Bruce initially suggested (that would include his doka), I would have to follow a similar path to O Sensei. His development and evolution of his budo into Aikido came after many years of practicing other arts and some serious religious studies. Knowing how hard it is to learn to speak and read Japanese, and not having the exposure to the texts and teachings that O Sensei had, and not being in a position to spend my days training in the way he did, I still think it would be pretty difficult to gain any insight into Aikido as a way.

Tony-kun 06-28-2002 10:52 PM

I see techniques as training grounds for 'the philosophy that makes Aiki a do'. From what I've learned some of the basic rules are to connect with the uke and blend with his attack at the exact same speed fluently. Doing this with a more or less empty mind will make the techniques work more smoothly. And the techniques can excercize one's ability to perform techniques this way. You can get some portions of 'the philosophy that makes Aiki a do' from O'Sensei's quotes and other books and then expirement by applying them to your Aikido. Although it would also be good to learn from a dojo that teaches the philosophy.

I think we could we could acquire the right insight for continued training in Aikido, O'Sensei didn't have his own wisdom before he acquired it. People might have to live a similar life as O'Sensei to discover Aikido(or invent).

Bruce Baker 06-29-2002 01:11 PM

Sooner or later
 
What the heck am I getting at?

Sooner or later, with all the experience, facts, reading, and training in Aikido or Aikido related subjects, you have to make your own decisions, have your own opinions, and not quote others to actually imbed what you have learned into your being ... make it your own philosopy or way of life.

Too many times I have been told that this man says this, or this book says that, but the actuality of truth is found in the soul of each human being by the lessons of life, and the life they choose to lead.

If we choose to practice Aikido, how much is it worth if we always allude to the knowledge and wisdom of others when we are without faith or knowledge ... dependant upon teachings of a person or a book that are contrary to what we believe in our tenents of morality?

Of course, there are times we must learn, study, and get an understanding of other cultures or people to base our decisions of approval or disapproval, but sooner or later, you will have to stand alone, think for yourself, and view teachings verses application for your own life?

When that happens, can you see the greater picture, or is it too big for you to see?

Confusing? Maybe.


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