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-   -   Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20738)

Mario Tobias 01-20-2012 01:35 PM

Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Very interesting comparison between a sword and an arm. An A-HA! moment for me.
One of the theories/principles I am currently proving to myself in training.

The sword's sharp edge can be broken down into 3 1/3rd parts.

The 1st 3rd from the tip is for killing
The 2nd 3rd in the middle is for control
The 3rd 3rd from middle to tsuba is for defense

A human's arm edge can be broken down into 3 1/3 parts.

The 1st 3rd which is the tegatana, used for attacking, atemi, cutting
The 2nd 3rd, the middle forearm is for control of uke during a technique, deflection
The 3rd 3rd towards the elbow is used for defense typically the head or redirection

Interestingly, the sword's weakest part is its side
An arm's weakest part is on its side, palm up or palm's down position where you can perform e.g. musubi techniques and therefore control uke.

gregstec 01-21-2012 01:10 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Maybe it more like how the sword works like an arm - which came first, chicken or the egg ? - just something else to think about :D

Greg

ChrisHein 01-21-2012 01:19 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Maybe it just part of understanding how levers work within the context of physical confrontation.

Malicat 01-21-2012 01:29 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Quote:

Chris Hein wrote: (Post 301234)
Maybe it just part of understanding how levers work within the context of physical confrontation.

Actually, I have noticed that quite a bit in my waza. It's funny, but frequently when I find myself not quite getting the technique correct, my Shihan will just say "Sword cut" and that immediately puts my hands in the correct position and I can do the technique.

--Ashley

SeiserL 01-21-2012 02:38 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
IMHO, there are some interesting implications.

If I use the blade of my hand to cut, I move it differently than if I push with it.

In sword work I control the tip. If I use my arm/hand like a sword and control where the tip would be, I seem to get an better extension of the technique.

Just thoughts?

graham christian 01-21-2012 03:02 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Leads to a better understanding of Ikkyo too.

Regards.G.

Mario Tobias 01-21-2012 03:09 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Quote:

Lynn Seiser wrote: (Post 301242)
IMHO, there are some interesting implications.

If I use the blade of my hand to cut, I move it differently than if I push with it.

In sword work I control the tip. If I use my arm/hand like a sword and control where the tip would be, I seem to get an better extension of the technique.

Just thoughts?

I also notice the following observations:

1) A person (uke) is strong or able to resist if his tegatana is directed towards his partner (nage)
2) that when you return uke's own tegatana to himself makes good technique. There are a lot of interesting applications: ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo, yonkyo, kotegaeshi, shiho nage even kokyuho and kneeling pins as prime examples. You can see it in a multitude of other techniques but its quite subtle. 2 tegatanas (both nages and ukes) toward uke increase a technique's effectiveness. A technique is not effective if either nage's or uke's tegatana is pointing/facing somewhere else other than toward uke.

It makes sense though because the tegatana is one of the most powerful parts so neutralize it in order to weaken partner.

To then start weakening/controlling a person is to return his tegatana to him or redirect it so that it is not facing nage. I'm currently testing this theory of mine and so far has yielded some very interesting results. It's a rather very simple idea but it changed everything in how I approached training.

Robert Cowham 01-22-2012 05:23 PM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
Quote:

Mario Tobias wrote: (Post 301192)
Very interesting comparison between a sword and an arm. An A-HA! moment for me.
One of the theories/principles I am currently proving to myself in training.

The sword's sharp edge can be broken down into 3 1/3rd parts.

The 1st 3rd from the tip is for killing
The 2nd 3rd in the middle is for control
The 3rd 3rd from middle to tsuba is for defense

I agree with the relationship between sword and arm which helps make taijutsu techniques more effective - e.g. try nikkyo with uke's wrist out in front of you away from your body, without and then with a shinai or bokken.

Where I don't agree, is the purpose you assign to the different thirds. The first third from tip (also called monouchi) - while it can be used for attack, it can also be used to defend, or indeed defend at the same time as attacking (defence by attack). For example, some people perform the following technique as a defence move, whereas I understand it as attacking the attack, and thus defending:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV_Jp4Ls07c#t=1m24s

(and to be clear I see that as a good example - clear intent to cut the attacking sword)

The challenge as I see it, is to be connected to the sword at all times (connect tanden with sword, first imaginatively and, with practice, a physical sensation). Often you focus more on one point than others - the point of contact - or the "meat of the bat" - think cricket if you're a Brit, baseball if a Yank :) - which is roughly one third in from tip.

A lot of people during suburi, tend to lose that connection - the sword goes dead at one or more places - often during the swing when it's behind them.

Thoughts?

lbb 01-23-2012 08:14 AM

Re: Interesting how the arm works exactly as a sword
 
I think that the whole "arm as sword" metaphor is pretty limited, actually, and that that's not the source of the most important connection between weapons and empty-hand techniques.


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