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graham christian 12-15-2011 06:23 AM

Aikido has no enemies
 
From famous quotes to debates on what is meant by 'no enemies'

For me from an Aikido perspective I too have no enemies and taking that view into life in it's fullness leads to a better perspective on people and life and living.

So allow me to share my view and the spiritual basis of it and may you too never be the same again ha, ha.

Basics and truth. In truth spiritually we are all basically good, we are all basically loving, we are all basically kind, we all desire that all powerful active state of peace.

Thus basically we are all friends, all connected, all in oneness and co-existence.

Thus a person attacking me I do not see as an enemy for I see the truth, I know the truth, I am at one with the truth.

So what do I see?

I see a long lost friend.

Of course this person is not acting as such, their actions towards me be they vindictive or physically life threatening are real and bring me into action. But such are the actions of the lost. Lost souls.

So see not enemies but only lost friends and thus see the need for realignment, rehabillitation, restoration, the effect of divine techniques.

So enter the space of a true Aikidoka with malicious intent then you are entering a space of not punishment but rescue from your lost self.

Such is Aikido to me and hopefully to many.

Regards.G.

genin 12-15-2011 06:42 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Divine techniques are great and all, but when you go to reach out to your "long lost friend" and they slap your hand away, it then becomes clear that they don't believe in the "no enemies" concept. What then?

They don't care what I see, or what I enter into. They treat and regard me as their enemy, so how should I respond?

Mary Eastland 12-15-2011 07:00 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
You could just let them be. Let them be where they are at. Accept how they feel and be peaceful anyway.

genin 12-15-2011 07:23 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Mary Eastland wrote: (Post 299957)
You could just let them be. Let them be where they are at. Accept how they feel and be peaceful anyway.

Yes, John Lennon would be pleased to hear Let it be. But even if I disregard them, and focus on my own personal well being, they are still left to fester in their own hatred and animosity, believing they are still my enemy.

It's all a matter of perspective. While YOU may believe you are enemy-less, your enemy thinks differently.

lbb 12-15-2011 07:51 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Roger Flatley wrote: (Post 299962)
Yes, John Lennon would be pleased to hear Let it be. But even if I disregard them, and focus on my own personal well being, they are still left to fester in their own hatred and animosity, believing they are still my enemy.

But is that your job to fix? You can't fix other people. It doesn't matter if you think it's your job or not, you can't do it.

I'm in agreement with Mary. No matter what stories you tell yourself, you can't somehow make other people be whatever you imagine them to be -- they are, independent of your will. Just let them be.

Jonathan 12-15-2011 10:31 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Basics and truth. In truth spiritually we are all basically good, we are all basically loving, we are all basically kind, we all desire that all powerful active state of peace.
Um, I don't actually see this borne out in human behaviour - rather the reverse. Infants are notoriously self-centered, and young children at play can be downright mean and vicious. And when humans grow up, their capacity for evil grows with them and shapes a world where selfishness, cruelty and war are commonplace. I don't mean to suggest, though, that humanity is utterly devoid of goodness. Obviously, this is not the case. I just think there is little to support the idea of the essential, intrinsic goodness of people.

Quote:

Thus basically we are all friends, all connected, all in oneness and co-existence.
Well, if we aren't, we ought to be. :)

Quote:

Thus a person attacking me I do not see as an enemy for I see the truth, I know the truth, I am at one with the truth.

So what do I see?

I see a long lost friend.
And what do you see when your "long lost friend" stabs your wife in the neck and kills her? What if your "long lost friend" shoots you in the gut and leaves you to die slowly and in agony? Do you shake his hand and say, "Nice to finally meet you my dear friend!"?

Quote:

Of course this person is not acting as such, their actions towards me be they vindictive or physically life threatening are real and bring me into action. But such are the actions of the lost. Lost souls.
Lost to what? Your perception of what is true? I don't mean to be rude, but why should anyone care if they are lost to your understanding of truth? Perhaps you are equally lost to theirs! Maybe you are as lost a soul to them as they seem to you! What then? Should they be conformed to your perspective, or you to theirs? Who gets un-lost?

Quote:

So see not enemies but only lost friends and thus see the need for realignment, rehabillitation, restoration, the effect of divine techniques.
If a "lost friend" is trying to murder me I shall "realign" him all right! I'll "rehabilitate" him right into the hospital - or the morgue.

Quote:

So enter the space of a true Aikidoka with malicious intent then you are entering a space of not punishment but rescue from your lost self.
"True Aikidoka"? What is that, exactly? And how do you know your definition is the correct one?

Quote:

Such is Aikido to me and hopefully to many.
Hmmm...I appreciate the positivity of your opinions in your post even if I don't agree with them. I think we should try to treat our enemies as our friends when we can. But it would be foolish and dangerous, I believe, to mistake an enemy for a friend.

genin 12-15-2011 10:46 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Perhaps it is only relative to you. Maybe someone else hates me, but if I don't acknowledge that, then in my world I have no enemies. And I won't be bothered with fear, animosity, or anger. Even if they are bothered by these things, that is not my problem and doesn't effect me.

The only way someone could make that problematic is if they targeted you for an attack of some sort. But then at that point, you just respond to the attack, blending and what not, then neutralize it. At which point you return to your calm, enemy-less state of being.

Jonathan 12-15-2011 11:27 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Perhaps it is only relative to you.
Oh, I'm not much of a relativist, trust me.

Quote:

Maybe someone else hates me, but if I don't acknowledge that, then in my world I have no enemies.
What world is that? The real, objective world you share with those who hate you does not disappear if you refuse to acknowledge it and neither do those hateful people who may populate it.

Quote:

And I won't be bothered with fear, animosity, or anger. Even if they are bothered by these things, that is not my problem and doesn't effect me.
It does affect you when their fear, animosity and anger is focused upon you and prompts violence toward you.

(This post assumes you were addressing me in your last post. If not, then ignore what I've written here.)

genin 12-15-2011 12:00 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Jonathan Hay wrote: (Post 299976)
What world is that? The real, objective world you share with those who hate you does not disappear if you refuse to acknowledge it and neither do those hateful people who may populate it.

It does affect you when their fear, animosity and anger is focused upon you and prompts violence toward you.

(This post assumes you were addressing me in your last post. If not, then ignore what I've written here.)

We are creators of our own reality! The world is what YOU make it!

You are only effected by the end result of their actions, not by the fear and anger itself. That is all contained internally, and can not permeate into your mind unless you let it.

Like I said, respond to any threats against you appropriately, then restore your state of calm and go back to your world devoid of enemies.

lbb 12-15-2011 12:27 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Roger Flatley wrote: (Post 299980)
We are creators of our own reality! The world is what YOU make it!

You are only effected by the end result of their actions

Well, yes, but you ARE plenty affected by that. If you get hit by a bus, you'll be plenty affected, and the world is absolutely not just what YOU make it.

phitruong 12-15-2011 12:55 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
i thought aikido is its own enermy

Janet Rosen 12-15-2011 01:40 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 299982)
i thought aikido is its own enermy

Some people thing it is going down the tube, which makes it its own enema. :)

graham christian 12-15-2011 02:13 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Roger Flatley wrote: (Post 299953)
Divine techniques are great and all, but when you go to reach out to your "long lost friend" and they slap your hand away, it then becomes clear that they don't believe in the "no enemies" concept. What then?

They don't care what I see, or what I enter into. They treat and regard me as their enemy, so how should I respond?

You're not reaching out to your long lost friend in that case.

Regards.G.

graham christian 12-15-2011 03:10 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Jonathan Hay wrote: (Post 299970)
Um, I don't actually see this borne out in human behaviour - rather the reverse. Infants are notoriously self-centered, and young children at play can be downright mean and vicious. And when humans grow up, their capacity for evil grows with them and shapes a world where selfishness, cruelty and war are commonplace. I don't mean to suggest, though, that humanity is utterly devoid of goodness. Obviously, this is not the case. I just think there is little to support the idea of the essential, intrinsic goodness of people.

Well, if we aren't, we ought to be. :)

And what do you see when your "long lost friend" stabs your wife in the neck and kills her? What if your "long lost friend" shoots you in the gut and leaves you to die slowly and in agony? Do you shake his hand and say, "Nice to finally meet you my dear friend!"?

Lost to what? Your perception of what is true? I don't mean to be rude, but why should anyone care if they are lost to your understanding of truth? Perhaps you are equally lost to theirs! Maybe you are as lost a soul to them as they seem to you! What then? Should they be conformed to your perspective, or you to theirs? Who gets un-lost?

If a "lost friend" is trying to murder me I shall "realign" him all right! I'll "rehabilitate" him right into the hospital - or the morgue.

"True Aikidoka"? What is that, exactly? And how do you know your definition is the correct one?

Hmmm...I appreciate the positivity of your opinions in your post even if I don't agree with them. I think we should try to treat our enemies as our friends when we can. But it would be foolish and dangerous, I believe, to mistake an enemy for a friend.

Maybe you could review your look at children. Then while you're at it review your look at parents. An infant, like a flower needs a good environment to flourish.

Dramatic what ifs and buts? Only those you consider enemies can do such a thing.

No one has to conform to anyones views. It not a matter of conforming. They are lost to their own true nature.

Who get's un=lost? The lost one of course. When you find your true self you become extremely happy. So therefore you must have wanted to be found. When another finds your true self you become extremely happy too.

Not much different to finding a long lost friend you haven't seen for 20 years. Another lesser in magnitude example would be when someone gives you understanding, quite a gift in it'self, how do you feel.

Many dire situations have been resolved with good communication thus realigned. Many have been reminded of their past aims and desires and helped to 'get back on track' and thus rehabillitated.

I first witnessed such over thirty years ago whilst talking to my friend outside his house. He was washing his car and along comes some muscle laden hulk of a madman and stopped and stared at him with a chilling kind of stare. My friend smiled and said 'alright mate?' Obviously for some reason it was the wrong communication for the guy reached down and grabbed a big spanner and launched into some frenzied attack. Maybe luckily, as he was an ex. amateur boxer at the time, he moved more like a couple of 'bobs' and whack layed him out. He then bent over him and brought him around making sure he was alright and took him indoors. At the time I wondered what the hell he was doing as this guy just tried to kill him. I was the one still outside transfixed by what I had just seen so I kind of shook myself out of it and went in after them prepared for what might now happen. What I found was my friend still comforting him while his wife made a cup of tea. The stranger poured out his heart and apologized and had a nice cup of tea and then we all saw him off at the door wishing him well.

Solutions are solutions and come in many forms. The right ones bring about such results even if in different or even similar circumstances the solution may be completely different.

That scene actually rehabilitated something in me and we went on to look for something which fitted us. Thus started our finding and journet in Aikido for that spiritual old man we saw on video said what we thought but didn't know how to say or vaguely how to do but 'knew' it was true.

The illusion of life can be very real and convincing.

Regards.G.

graham christian 12-15-2011 03:17 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Phi Truong wrote: (Post 299982)
i thought aikido is its own enermy

Ha, ha. As a group 'entity' I fully agree It needs group masakatsu and agatsu no doubt......

As with all groups as well as individuals and countries.

Long lost friends within............Indeed...

Regards.G.

Demetrio Cereijo 12-15-2011 04:43 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Aikido has no enemies, but aikidoka are very good at making them.

Jonathan 12-15-2011 06:41 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Maybe you could review your look at children. Then while you're at it review your look at parents. An infant, like a flower needs a good environment to flourish.
I know this may sound a bit truculent, but why shouldn't you review your look at children? Really, I think my view is pretty consistent with reality. As I said, humanity is not utterly devoid of goodness: children sometimes do things that are kind, and generous, and delightfully innocent. But the same children who do these things may a moment later be screaming bloody murder and hitting Tommy in the face because he tried to steal their toy. I've seen this plenty of times.

I wonder why children need a good environment in order to flourish? Wouldn't their basic goodness propel them toward being good adults regardless of their environment? I should think so, if you're correct.

Quote:

Dramatic what ifs and buts? Only those you consider enemies can do such a thing.
Sorry, but I don't follow you here...

Quote:

No one has to conform to anyones views. It not a matter of conforming. They are lost to their own true nature.
Says who? Saying they are lost to their own true nature asserts a point of view in a way that expects agreement. But if, as you say, no one has to conform to anyone's view, then no one has to conform to the one you just asserted here. The most you ought to say, then, is that it is your opinion that they are lost to their own true nature, not that they are actually so lost. However, if it just your opinion you are offering, why should anyone give it any weight in their thinking?

Quote:

Who get's un=lost? The lost one of course. When you find your true self you become extremely happy.
I think you missed my point. In any case, how do you know finding yourself always results in extreme happiness?

Quote:

So therefore you must have wanted to be found. When another finds your true self you become extremely happy too.
Uh huh.

Quote:

Not much different to finding a long lost friend you haven't seen for 20 years. Another lesser in magnitude example would be when someone gives you understanding, quite a gift in it'self, how do you feel.
You seem to be making connections in your thinking that you aren't clearly explaining here...

Quote:

Many dire situations have been resolved with good communication thus realigned.
Is a sharp nikkyo "good communication"? ;)

Quote:

Many have been reminded of their past aims and desires and helped to 'get back on track' and thus rehabillitated.
When I think of the word "rehabilitate," I think of someone who has been injured but through a process of exercise and medicine returned to normal functioning, or a criminal who has worked to change his attitudes and skills while in prison so that upon his release he may function better in society. Merely being reminded of past aims and desires, though, doesn't really qualify as rehabilitation, in my mind. Often, when aims and desires are let go, it is because some other superior aim or stronger desire has taken its place. This is a perfectly normal, natural occurrence that does not require "rehab." Anywhoo...

Quote:

I first witnessed such over thirty years ago whilst talking to my friend outside his house. He was washing his car and along comes some muscle laden hulk of a madman and stopped and stared at him with a chilling kind of stare. My friend smiled and said 'alright mate?' Obviously for some reason it was the wrong communication for the guy reached down and grabbed a big spanner and launched into some frenzied attack. Maybe luckily, as he was an ex. amateur boxer at the time, he moved more like a couple of 'bobs' and whack layed him out. He then bent over him and brought him around making sure he was alright and took him indoors. At the time I wondered what the hell he was doing as this guy just tried to kill him. I was the one still outside transfixed by what I had just seen so I kind of shook myself out of it and went in after them prepared for what might now happen. What I found was my friend still comforting him while his wife made a cup of tea. The stranger poured out his heart and apologized and had a nice cup of tea and then we all saw him off at the door wishing him well.
I notice the tea and comfort came after your friend punched the attacker into unconsciousness, not before. An important order of events, I think. ;)

Quote:

The illusion of life can be very real and convincing.
The "illusion of life"? Can you be more specific?

David Yap 12-15-2011 08:47 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Demetrio Cereijo wrote: (Post 299999)
Aikido has no enemies, but aikidoka are very good at making them.

So true and I must admit I'm one of them :D

David Yap 12-16-2011 12:27 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
This is from AJ (except for the asterisk which I added) :

The founder of Aikido's concept of aiki strategy goes far beyond the dimension of psycho-physical confrontation. In an interview conducted in 1957, he expresses the concept in these words:

"It is not a question of either ‘Sēn Sēn no Sēn' or ‘Sēn no Sēn'. If I were to try to verbalize it I would say that you control your opponent without trying to control him. That is, the state of continuous victory. There isn't any question of winning over or losing to an opponent. In this sense, there is no opponent* in aikido. Even if you have an opponent, he becomes a part of you, a partner you control only."


* Muteki 無敵 -- invincible/there is no opponent

Compared to:

Quote:

Thus a person attacking me I do not see as an enemy for I see the truth, I know the truth, I am at one with the truth.

So what do I see?

I see a long lost friend.

Of course this person is not acting as such, their actions towards me be they vindictive or physically life threatening are real and bring me into action. But such are the actions of the lost. Lost souls.

So see not enemies but only lost friends and thus see the need for realignment, rehabillitation, restoration, the effect of divine techniques.

So enter the space of a true Aikidoka with malicious intent then you are entering a space of not punishment but rescue from your lost self.
:confused:

If you see a "lost friend" in the street who intends to cause you bodily harm and you do not have the skill to control him and divine techniques are not forthcoming...you will realize (OMG) that it is a case of mistaken identity :D

graham christian 01-01-2012 03:41 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

David Yap wrote: (Post 300027)
This is from AJ (except for the asterisk which I added) :

The founder of Aikido's concept of aiki strategy goes far beyond the dimension of psycho-physical confrontation. In an interview conducted in 1957, he expresses the concept in these words:

"It is not a question of either Sēn Sēn no Sēn' or Sēn no Sēn'. If I were to try to verbalize it I would say that you control your opponent without trying to control him. That is, the state of continuous victory. There isn't any question of winning over or losing to an opponent. In this sense, there is no opponent* in aikido. Even if you have an opponent, he becomes a part of you, a partner you control only."


* Muteki 無敵 -- invincible/there is no opponent

Compared to:

:confused:

If you see a "lost friend" in the street who intends to cause you bodily harm and you do not have the skill to control him and divine techniques are not forthcoming...you will realize (OMG) that it is a case of mistaken identity :D

Happy new year David. What's the confusion? A lost friend is not an enemy. He is merely my training partner. No need to control him but merely to join him in divinity.

If you don't have the skill and divine techniques are not forthcoming then you are not doing Aikido.

Regards. G.

lbb 01-01-2012 08:33 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
If you can't lift a Greyhound bus with one finger, you are not doing aikido.

mathewjgano 01-01-2012 08:58 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 300057)
If you can't lift a Greyhound bus with one finger, you are not doing aikido.

I suppose, but theft doesn't strike me as very aiki...of course eye the key and, right or wrong, it gets easier.
Happy New Year! :)

graham christian 01-01-2012 09:45 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Mary Malmros wrote: (Post 300057)
If you can't lift a Greyhound bus with one finger, you are not doing aikido.

Aikido is sitting in it enjoying the ride......admire the view it's divine,

Peace and love to you for the new year.

G.

David Yap 01-02-2012 05:33 AM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Quote:

Graham Christian wrote: (Post 300042)
Happy new year David. What's the confusion? A lost friend is not an enemy. He is merely my training partner. No need to control him but merely to join him in divinity.

If you don't have the skill and divine techniques are not forthcoming then you are not doing Aikido.

Regards. G.

Yes, Graham. Happy New Year to you 2.

David Yap 01-02-2012 09:03 PM

Re: Aikido has no enemies
 
Fully knowing it to be
A matter of life and death before us (don't drink and drive),
We may choose to withdraw
But the "lost friend" will not allow it.
Kanpai (cheers) to all friends and deities!!

- Morihei Ueshiba on a new year's eve :D


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