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terry johnson 10-27-2011 10:04 PM

Wrong technique
 
I recently trained in a dojo in Thailand. I had no Gi, so wore shorts and T shirt. The sensei put me on the floor and pressed down on my shoulders, leaving my arms free.

I didn't know whether to free myself, which would have been easy for me to do. Instead I just accepted his move..But I felt as a teacher he could not have possibly made this error. I left and have not been back.

As any one else been in this situation and what do you think is the correct course of action to take?

David Yap 10-27-2011 11:02 PM

Re: Wrong technique
 
Quote:

Terry Johnson wrote: (Post 295432)
I recently trained in a dojo in Thailand. I had no Gi, so wore shorts and T shirt. The sensei put me on the floor and pressed down on my shoulders, leaving my arms free.

I didn't know whether to free myself, which would have been easy for me to do. Instead I just accepted his move..But I felt as a teacher he could not have possibly made this error. I left and have not been back.

As any one else been in this situation and what do you think is the correct course of action to take?

Hi Terry,

I do this sometimes with uke who resist being put to the floor. Once I have put him on floor and pinned his shoulders momentarily, I would take a step back to allow him to get up and start the attack all over again till I am satisfied that I can put him down at will even with the resistance. Nothing to prove but maximizing the time to train without softening up the Uke :D

David Y

terry johnson 10-29-2011 09:11 AM

Re: Wrong technique
 
Quote:

David Yap wrote: (Post 295434)
Hi Terry,

I do this sometimes with uke who resist being put to the floor. Once I have put him on floor and pinned his shoulders momentarily, I would take a step back to allow him to get up and start the attack all over again till I am satisfied that I can put him down at will even with the resistance. Nothing to prove but maximizing the time to train without softening up the Uke :D

David Y

Thanks for your reply
It's not quite like that... He pinned my shoulders and said now get out of that
Of course it would have been simple to do, but I refrained from doing so.
While I could move my arms and hands it would have been easy..

He was demonstrating this to the class. We all had to do it. But I know it was wrong.
I am wondering about his real status. But I love aikido and have been doing it 30 years on and off,
This is because I am in different countries. I am settled in, Thailand now and dojos are few..
Once again, thanks for your. reply

Carsten Möllering 10-29-2011 10:38 AM

Re: Wrong technique
 
I don't know, what that sensei wanted to show.

But I sometimes do something which seems to be similar:
uke is brought down to tatami like lets say in ikkyo. Then I change and touch uke on his back with only one hand. Most oftn between the shoulder blades, sometimes on one of his schoulder blades. uke should feel very free in this situation, he can use his arms like he wants to. (That's how you felt?)
I then want uke to stand up, roll away, get free and use his arms an body to got away (That's what this sensei wanted you to do?)
Uke may get up or move to a certain point when I move him not by pressure on his back but by changing the direction of his movement. He feels free, but he can't bring his movements to the end he wants to. So I control uke while we he is moving quite a lot, while I just lay my hand on his back.

We do this to better understand how atari works and to better understand the osae waza. Endo sometimes shows this.

If someone doesn't try to get up or move away nothing just happens and he will not feel what could have happened.

kewms 10-29-2011 02:41 PM

Re: Wrong technique
 
Quote:

Terry Johnson wrote: (Post 295532)
Thanks for your reply
It's not quite like that... He pinned my shoulders and said now get out of that
Of course it would have been simple to do, but I refrained from doing so.
While I could move my arms and hands it would have been easy..

If you didn't try it, how do you know it would have been easy?

Katherine

David Yap 10-29-2011 10:57 PM

Re: Wrong technique
 
Quote:

Carsten Möllering wrote: (Post 295538)
...We do this to better understand how atari works and to better understand the osae waza. Endo sometimes shows this.

If someone doesn't try to get up or move away nothing just happens and he will not feel what could have happened.

Took a few ukeme for Endo shihan in Shanghai last week, took me a couple of attacks to realize that he did not want me to "surrender" to him. It was either resisting the pin or continuing to attack him when he released the pin. He was demonstrating the point that there is no aikido without connection (atari) [I gather from that statement that he does not believe in no-touch throws :rolleyes: ].

Lyle Laizure 10-30-2011 07:16 AM

Re: Wrong technique
 
If he told you to get up you should have got up. There could have been several lessons there. There may not have been one at all. There's always next time.

Janet Rosen 10-30-2011 12:40 PM

Re: Wrong technique
 
Quote:

Lyle Laizure wrote: (Post 295569)
If he told you to get up you should have got up. There could have been several lessons there. There may not have been one at all. There's always next time.

Yep


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