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-   -   how long does it take aikido to work (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20282)

kienergy1234 09-12-2011 07:26 PM

how long does it take aikido to work
 
i was just wondering how long it took aikido to work

robin_jet_alt 09-12-2011 07:38 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292378)
i was just wondering how long it took aikido to work

Usually about half a second :p

Seriously, what sort of question is that?

kewms 09-12-2011 07:38 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
What does "work" mean to you?

Katherine

dps 09-12-2011 11:06 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
It could work for you right now or it could never work for you. It depends on how much confidence you have in yourself.

dps

gates 09-12-2011 11:37 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Josh
I would gather by the nature of your question you are quite new to Aikido.

There is a lot of debate generally from inexperienced people about techniques working/not working in this or that scenario.

These types of discussions are rarely all that fruitful, knowing this most experienced Aikidoka wont take part.

Everybody interprets Aikido in there own way.

For me Aikido techniques teach principles and ways of moving around power without fighting against it.
Through the process I have found myself more connected physically and mentally more composed.

The principles of moving around power / letting the power move around you without becoming unsettled can be applied to lots of different non physical situations. When we are attacked either verbally or physically it is natural to tense up. This encumbers our movements and our ability to react in an appropriate manner.

Aikido is like a physical Zen Koan there is really no right answer it is an illuminating process of self discovery.
Don't be too concerned with the end result, just as a musician doesn't look for the end of the piece of music but enjoys the journey, or when you read a book you are not hurriedly trying to get to the end of the book. It is a process not a destination.

Remember with one eye on your next grading you only have one eye on your training. It is a process not a destination.

Q. How long does it take to work?
A. It is working every time you train.

Mark Freeman 09-13-2011 01:37 AM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Quote:

Keith Gates wrote: (Post 292391)
Josh
I would gather by the nature of your question you are quite new to Aikido.

There is a lot of debate generally from inexperienced people about techniques working/not working in this or that scenario.

These types of discussions are rarely all that fruitful, knowing this most experienced Aikidoka wont take part.

Everybody interprets Aikido in there own way.

For me Aikido techniques teach principles and ways of moving around power without fighting against it.
Through the process I have found myself more connected physically and mentally more composed.

The principles of moving around power / letting the power move around you without becoming unsettled can be applied to lots of different non physical situations. When we are attacked either verbally or physically it is natural to tense up. This encumbers our movements and our ability to react in an appropriate manner.

Aikido is like a physical Zen Koan there is really no right answer it is an illuminating process of self discovery.
Don't be too concerned with the end result, just as a musician doesn't look for the end of the piece of music but enjoys the journey, or when you read a book you are not hurriedly trying to get to the end of the book. It is a process not a destination.

Remember with one eye on your next grading you only have one eye on your training. It is a process not a destination.

Q. How long does it take to work?
A. It is working every time you train.

Hi Keith,

That's an excellent answer to a difficult question.

regards,

Mark

Tim Ruijs 09-13-2011 02:22 AM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Aikido works all the time,

however often there is room for improvement :D

Like mentioned earlier, Aikido is about the journey, not the destination.

kienergy1234 09-13-2011 03:49 PM

how long does it take aikido to work?
 
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

so i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work in real self defence situation.

sorokod 09-13-2011 04:07 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work?
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292461)
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

so i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work in real self defence situation.

About a year after you manage to overcome your dad.

Janet Rosen 09-13-2011 04:35 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work?
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292461)
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

so i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work in real self defence situation.

In real life you do not decide on a technique and try to make it work. That is known as muscling through, aka fruitless grappling, aka epic fail.

In real life you respond to the attacker's incoming energy and go with what technique presents itself. If the energy changes, the technique changes, as many times as necessary.

akiy 09-13-2011 04:46 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Josh,

It seems like you keep asking this same question in many different threads. Can you please refrain from starting multiple threads on the same subject?

I have merged the two threads that you have recently started.

I will note, too, that you have asked this question here on AikiWeb seven years ago as well which leads me to be curious about your intentions behind starting these threads.

-- Jun

dps 09-13-2011 05:03 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Quote:

Jun Akiyama wrote: (Post 292466)
Josh,

It seems like you keep asking this same question in many different threads. Can you please refrain from starting multiple threads on the same subject?

I have merged the two threads that you have recently started.

I will note, too, that you have asked this question here on AikiWeb seven years ago as well which leads me to be curious about your intentions behind starting these threads.

-- Jun

Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292461)
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

so i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work in real self defence situation.

If after seven years you can not do a technique sucessfully on your dad, you should give it up.

dps

Eric Joyce 09-13-2011 05:19 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292378)
i was just wondering how long it took aikido to work

You have been on this board since 2004 and there have been numerous discussions on the topic. I would assume over the past 7 years since joining you have had an opportunity to practice the art or at least try it. Form your own opinion.

Janet Rosen 09-13-2011 06:16 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Quote:

David Skaggs wrote: (Post 292471)
If after seven years you can not do a technique sucessfully on your dad, you should give it up.

dps

:D

Diana Frese 09-13-2011 06:25 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Cool thread. Whatever the training experience or motivation of the OP for training -- and posting -- the answers are very worth while reading. Thanks, everyone

Ketsan 09-13-2011 06:54 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
About six months after you realise it's not about technique and start being all freestyle with what you know from learning the various kata with atemi.

The bit that Aikidoka seldom get to is the bit where they figure out what they can do with what they know. So they can do an awesome irimi nage but they never really think about what all the different elements needed for a good irimi nage mean they can now do.

The other thing is that people always like to introduce limitations into what they're doing because "It's not Aikido". Like you have to do irimi nage, you can;t use the irimi movement, put a rear naked choke on or drag them to the ground and ground them and pound them or drop on them with both knees.......the possibilities are pretty much endless but it's not what sensei taught so somehow it's not Aikido or something, supposedly or it's not what Aikido is about. People like to squeeze their Aikido into a box but Aikido is like lego: you don't have to make what's on the front of the box, you can make whatever you like.

O Sensei said that Aikido is the art where "we try not to kill people" so if you've managed to avoid killing them it's all good as I see it.

dps 09-13-2011 08:51 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Actually if your first Aikido practice includes tai sabaki to get off line of the attack then you have learned something that works. Tai Sabaki along with running real fast can get you out of a lot of bad situations.

dps

kewms 09-14-2011 02:30 AM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work?
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292461)
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

How is your dad's ukemi?

Are you willing to hit him if he doesn't move?

One of the biggest problems with trying out your aikido on non-training friends and relatives is that they aren't really trying to attack you, and you aren't willing to really throw them. There's no energy. But without energy, aikido is nearly impossible.

Katherine

Avery Jenkins 09-14-2011 08:37 AM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
I dunno how long it takes for aikido to work. I've been doing this for a long time, seems like I'm still doing all the work.

Keith Larman 09-14-2011 09:09 AM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work?
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292461)
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

so i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work in real self defence situation.

Have you considered taking lessons from your dad instead?

Chicko Xerri 09-14-2011 09:47 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
If you are practising then Aikido is already working.

Tim Ruijs 09-15-2011 02:07 AM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
Quote:

I will note, too, that you have asked this question here on AikiWeb seven years ago as well which leads me to be curious about your intentions behind starting these threads. - Jun
Josh, would you care to respond to this?

I am sure most of us are eager to advise on about any subject you can come up with (less it be Aikido related). :confused:

Mark Harrington 09-25-2011 08:53 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
That's like asking, "How long does it take baseball to work?"

You practice the techniques, study many things, develop relationships, and gets to the point where it begins to come together.

One day you go up to bat and hit a double down the left field line. When you dust yourself off and you're standing on second base, you can ask the question again. Did baseball work for you that time? If it did, did it not work for the pitcher and the left fielder?

You need to decide what Aikido is for you and what you mean by working.

Since you have a forum join date of 2004, it seems likely that you have almost a decade of contact with Aikido, making this question seem out of place.

Janet Rosen 09-25-2011 11:38 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work
 
That's ok, Mark, he asked the same question in 2004 too.

jeremymcmillan 09-27-2011 11:11 PM

Re: how long does it take aikido to work?
 
Quote:

Josh Dalton wrote: (Post 292461)
i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work because when i tried to perform an aikido technique on my dad he resisted and did not work.

so i was just wondering how long it takes aikido to work in real self defence situation.

There's a LOT of magic in Aikido. I don't mean magical forces. I mean the kind that Penn and Teller do. If your dad is in a position to resist effectively, then it means you failed to apply fundamentals when you performed. You probably made critical mistakes even before your father resisted.

Aikido works, but only if you do it right, and that can take time depending on a lot of things including the quality of your instruction, the quality of the attention you pay to the instruction, the frequency and dedication of your training schedule, the ability to take ukemi when attacking your sempai in training so that you can feel what it's supposed to be like on the other end of the technique. All those things make a difference, and some people are also just gifted with the knack and will "get it" with less exposure.

A lot of martial arts training has devolved into teaching "moves" or "systems" which are really just related collections of "moves." Even if you know how to correctly execute one or several Aikido techniques, it doesn't mean you can "do" Aikido. I can do that. I could probably even teach you to do that, but I am a 6th kyu student, and I know I couldn't really teach you to "do" Aikido. After almost a year now of consistently training for three hours a week, I would say I can "do" Aikido on my good days. The Dan ranks at my dojo, who are both very powerful and gentle Aikido veterans of ten or fifteen or twenty years, "do" Aikido almost every day, but any of them will tell anyone they are still learning.

People who've been dong it for 15-20 years must be getting something pretty valuable out of it, and so I suggest that's also the case for people who've been doing it for one year. It's much less certain how long it will take for any giver person to have their first Aikido experience that "clicks" and makes them realize why people do that.

Enough about "when" Aikido will work: I think you should stop watching the clock/calendar and focus all of your attention intensely on "how" Aikido will work. If you do not, then the answer to "when" is "never."
"It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down" - Yagyu Munenori


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