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-   -   Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20152)

Scott Harrington 08-09-2011 04:23 PM

Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
One of my beliefs is that the history of Daito ryu and Aikido is dependent on its ‘birthing' and upbringing. Certainly Ueshiba's worldview (and phraseology describing Aikido) derived much from his Ōmoto-kyō beliefs.

A similar situation resolves around Takeda Sokau's life in the Aizu Wakamatsu region. The Aizu clan had strict codes of behavior and military training. This codification surely also extended into religious beliefs and customs.

While little has been found regarding Daito ryu and Aizu roots, it has been stated that Saigo Tanomo (a VERY high ranking Aizu councilor) was the conduit to teach Takeda Sokaku. After the breakup of the Aizu region he entered into Buddhist service in a shrine / temple to live out the rest of his life.



Well, with all the talk about spirals and their influence in ‘internal arts' I can only say," WHAT the H*** influence could this temple have had?"

Known as Sazaedo Hall, constructed in 1796 in the Aizu Wakamatsu region, this unique structure was designed using a double helical structure, so that one entering could ascend to the top and without breaking path, continue downward without retracing your steps. Various alcoves in the wooden structure held Buddhist icons (all lost in time) for special reverence.

I could easily see Saigo Tanomo taking Takeda Sokaku to Sazaedo Hall and as they began the circular climb, and begin to show how this structure could be incorporated into a ‘body structure' allowing one to be rooted to the heavens and the earth in a continuous, flowing pattern. Just imagine, anyone touching a rotating spiral is immediately deflected around without disturbing the center core. Using breathing techniques and exercises, one could internalize this to enhance martial techniques. Kind of like aiki, ne?

A stretch? Surely World War II veterans sent off on ships from New York City, passing the Statue of Liberty realized better what their combat service was protecting as they entered into harm's way.

The Entsu Sanso do (formal name), nickname based on the spiral shaped marine snail has been restored and there are even 3d diagrams available online to better get an eye on how this unique structure was designed and built.
Here is a you tube link of a tour thru it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbsIFksqZus .

I do not know exactly how this may have been used as a teaching aid but certainly a different take on the spiraling issue on discussion.

Scott Harrington

Walker 08-09-2011 04:54 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Cool building.

Saigo Tonomo/Hoshina Chikanori was a guuji - shinto priest, not buddhist...

(not that they're all that different, they were separated in 1886)

Janet Rosen 08-09-2011 05:11 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Very cool building! But {wicked grin} which came first: conceptual importance of spiral or the building?

thisisnotreal 08-09-2011 10:09 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Kind of reminds me of this pic (dual spiral sculpture)

robin_jet_alt 08-10-2011 12:54 AM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
It's definitely a very cool building. I visited it a few years ago, and it is more impressive in person than in the photograph.

As for any connection with Takeda, it's all conjecture at this stage, but you never know.

Allen Beebe 08-10-2011 11:01 AM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
1 Attachment(s)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/poizZframeE.gif
Attachment 901

Imagine a circle with a single twist. Imagine taking hold and moving the circle in the manner of a conveyor belt. From a fixed view point the belt appears to be moving forward and backward in perfectly equal measure. Now twist the circle a couple more times. The spirals become more visually pronounced and the conveyor belt continues to operate in the same manner. Where is the beginning? Where is the end?

Shingon Mikkyo has a term "Nyuga Ganyu," "entering into, being entered into." The above image is a pretty good visual description of Nyuga Ganyu. From one perspective the balance is absolute. It is singular. (The circle) From another perspective it is relative "+ & -" "entering into, being entered into" "in/yo, yin/yang".

From the absolute perspective time makes little sense. From a relative perspective time makes sense (past/future) and a spiral can appear proceeding and receding in equal measure.

From here all hell breaks loose!

In Shingon, there is also a Heaven/Earth/Man conception as well. Probably the easiest place to see that is in the floral arrangements of the Sagago Ryu school of Ikebana.

All over simplified and FWIW. (How does one over simplify a singularity?)

Very cool BTW. I don't recall this from my trips to Aizu. Thanks for posting and for the YouTube link.

Allen Beebe 08-10-2011 11:10 AM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Saga Goryu Ikebana

http://www.mayukominami.com/saga.html

Heaven/Earth/Man in brief. (btw it may be a secret so don't tell anybody! ;) )

Scott Harrington 08-10-2011 01:51 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
1 Attachment(s)
Drifiting into some spooky waters here with the Shingon references. A friend and I had a nice visit several years ago at the Shingon Temple in L.A.

The head priestess, who treated us very nicely, was of advanced age and had a severe case of dowager's hump due to osteoporosis. I have often wanted to go up there and see the fire ceremony - pyrotechnics!!!!

Here is a visual image connected to 'interfacing' with the buddha.

"This is some really esoteric s***, man! Like far out." One can imagine Ueshiba being greatly influenced (having previous exposure) by shingon drills once he had been taught IP / Aiki.

What a strange mix, though Takeda Sokaku had similar run-ins. He just seemed to be more level-headed about it. Yeah, it works, look how I can throw you down whenever I want with it.

Getting away from spirals, but interesting.

Scott Harrington

Howard Popkin 08-10-2011 02:12 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Hey Al,

You know anything about shingon ? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Allen Beebe 08-10-2011 03:01 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Quote:

Howard Popkin wrote: (Post 290015)
Hey Al,

You know anything about shingon ? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Enough to know better than to take myself too seriously! :p

Erick Mead 08-10-2011 06:07 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Quote:

Allen Beebe wrote: (Post 289999)
http://harmoniouspalette.com/poizZframeE.gif
Attachment 901
Imagine a circle with a single twist. Imagine taking hold and moving the circle in the manner of a conveyor belt. From a fixed view point the belt appears to be moving forward and backward in perfectly equal measure. Now twist the circle a couple more times. The spirals become more visually pronounced and the conveyor belt continues to operate in the same manner. Where is the beginning? Where is the end?
.... From a relative perspective time makes sense (past/future) and a spiral can appear proceeding and receding in equal measure.

Excellent. Now. Think 3d. Think tubular balloons. Think of the kinks that form when you twist them. Think of spiral stresses (compression v. tension) rather than movement in proceeding v. receding .

The balloon is just a deformed sphere (as is the human body -- though some are more spherical than others ;) ). Twist the balloon and a kink occurs -- and you get two deformed spheres. More twists and more kinks and you get a chain of spheres -- like balloon animals -- which can all be reunified into one spherical structure -- or that can resume chainlike behavior -- instantaneously, or progressively, either way.

"Spherical rotations," as Dosshu described things, maybe not far off..

robin_jet_alt 08-10-2011 08:13 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Quote:

Allen Beebe wrote: (Post 289999)

Very cool BTW. I don't recall this from my trips to Aizu. Thanks for posting and for the YouTube link.

It's at Iimoriyama, near the Byakkotai memorial.

Allen Beebe 08-10-2011 10:38 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 290034)
It's at Iimoriyama, near the Byakkotai memorial.

Huh! I remember the Byakkotai memorial but not the cool spiraling pagoda. On the other hand, I shouldn't be too surprised that I can't remember. Today I ran across a journal I kept that dated from '86. I'm surprised at what I remembered and what I didn't. I don't remember being privy to the kind of information that I obviously was . . . I wrote it down! It is too bad I stopped writing! The other interesting thing is that almost everyone I wrote about is now dead!

robin_jet_alt 08-10-2011 11:21 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Wow, '86 was a long time ago.

I only moved away from Fukushima last year and I'm already forgetting lots of stuff. It's scary how little I remember.

jester 08-11-2011 11:24 AM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Quote:

Erick Mead wrote: (Post 290029)
Excellent. Now. Think 3d. Think tubular balloons.

The balloon is just a deformed sphere (as is the human body -- though some are more spherical than others ;) ). Twist the balloon and a kink occurs -- and you get two deformed spheres.

Speaking of Balloons and houses!!

Allen Beebe 08-11-2011 01:24 PM

Re: Largest Hidden in Plain Sight Spiral Ever
 
Quote:

Robin Boyd wrote: (Post 290052)
Wow, '86 was a long time ago.

I only moved away from Fukushima last year and I'm already forgetting lots of stuff. It's scary how little I remember.

I remember '86 Ike it was yesterday . . . Or I remember yesterday as well as I do '86' which is a bit sad. :confused:

Anyway, it is all like a continuous spiral: the more things change, the more they stay the same. (except for my waistline which is more like the ever expanding perimeter of the universe! :mad: )


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